Subaru Forester (2010) and Chains, WTF

I'm surprised how much faith everyone (including wsdot) has in that M+S rating. It is widely acknowledged to be more or less meaningless these days. Anything worth its salt in snow should have the mountain snowflake emblem on the side, although even that rating has been watered down a bit. The other thing that makes a big difference is the WIDTH of the tires. Contrary to what is being peddled by OEM's and tire/wheel shops alike these days, big rims and wide tires may handle better on dry pavement, but not in snow.

I'm surprised how much faith everyone (including wsdot) has in that M+S rating. 

QFT.

While a suby with crappy OE M&S tires is unlikely to get stuck on any highway that is open. Snow tires actually allow you to stop and they grip better on ice. Which are the real problems of winter driving.

Since cheap snow tires work almost as well as the very expensive ones and far better than any M&S tire and a set mounted on cheap rims probably cost less than most peoples insuarance deductable and you don't have to replace your summer tires as often and the snows deal with our perpetually sodden, standing water, winter freeways better anyway...

What was the reason not to get them again?

What was the reason not to get them again?

it'll cut into my ski storage space.  if i buy a set of steelies and snow tires i've got to pay for them and store them somewhere, both of which is a hassle. 

plus rolling around on bald tires keeps my driving skills honed    I suppose next thing you're gonna tell us is that we all have to brush off our windshields a certain way...

No question, wide tires are poor performers on snow.

Also, most "performance" tires, which often come with new cars are particularly poor performers and wear out very fast.

I now have in excess of 264,000 miles on my '93 Legacy wagon and have never needed a snow tire in all these years.  That includes one to two round trips a week to Stevens in season during the last 7 years.  My Michelin all seasons do fine, never had to use the chains on that drive.  Never lost control.

The only time I have used the chains was coming home from work in snow descending Education Hill in Redmond on ice.  Only put them on the rear wheels to keep the front pointed down the hill and for braking for several hundred yards and then removed them.

One under-appreciated thing I like about my car is that it has a very underpowered motor.  All wheel drives on Volvos, Audi, etc. may be great features, but they tend to have such torqy motors and drive trains that it is hard to accelerate in those cars without breaking traction under tough conditions.

Been looking for a replacement this year for my car.  No luck.  There is no used car in the area that holds value like a suby wagon or outback.  I have seen cars one and two years old with 16k or 30k miles listed, used, for more money than the new outbacks new!  Not looking for that new a car, but I have trouble paying $15k for a car that has 80-100,000 miles on it and is 8 years old.  Especially when it originally sold for only $22k. Now that is a performance vehicle.  Can't imagine a Mercedes holding value like that.

I have decided to do some repairs and see if I can keep the old beater going until 300,000 miles or until the used suby market cools down.

Alan

Don't like studs, I do more driving on wet roads in winter months and studs apparently perform worse on wet roads than any other tire. Metal on wet pavement does not = better traction. Metal on pavement certainly = damage to the road. I have no proof of these claims, but maybe a good MythBusters episode is in order on this topic. Certainly an advantage on pure ice, but don't see that so much. Not sure if there is much advantage on actual snow.

Under the conditions where I have seen cars actually sliding at slow speeds due to steepness, I am not sure snow tires would have done that much good. Most of our pass driving really is fairly low angle. If it is so icy that non-studded all season tires are going to loose grip, then I am not caring if I have snow tires on or not. Chains need to be used.

Alan

Been looking for a replacement this year for my car.  No luck.  There is no used car in the area that holds value like a suby wagon or outback.  I have seen cars one and two years old with 16k or 30k miles listed, used, for more money than the new outbacks new!  Not looking for that new a car, but I have trouble paying $15k for a car that has 80-100,000 miles on it and is 8 years old. 

Keep looking. In the spring, I found a '99 Legacy wagon in acceptable shape with 104k for $3k + new clutch and timing belt (~$5.4k total) a few months ago. A fellow TAYer did even better, but had to spend a lot of time looking at decrepit rustbuckets.

I ran studless snows the last two years, and found that their grip was significantly better in snow than past all-seasons. Grip in the rain seemed diminished. This year, I'm giving some modern all-seasons a try, since most of the trip to Snoqualmie is wet, not snowy. If that turns out to suck, then it's right back to the snows.