WMC Update 2012

www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2012/jan/28/...-other-winter-users/

Tension between snowmobilers, other winter users, heats up
By K.C. Mehaffey
World staff writer

Saturday, January 28, 2012

WENATCHEE — Rob Mullins remembers the days when he could load up his snowmobile, ride for a few miles up any one of a dozen groomed snowmobile trails, park the machine and go skiing for a full day of quiet recreation.

That’s back when a snowmobile could barely chug through deep snow off a groomed trail.

But those days are gone. Now, Mullins says, he’s hard-pressed to find a spot — even deep in the back country — where he won’t run into a group of snowmobilers, carving up the powdered slopes that took him hours on skis to reach.

A former Leavenworth logger and trapper who retrained as a nurse, Mullins says he has nothing against snowmobilers. He relates to these guys when they stop to chat with him. And, after all, he uses one himself.

His issue is with the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest, which, he says, is refusing to recognize that snowmobiling isn’t the same sport it was 20 years ago.

“It’s ridiculous. We’re out on foot, with our family or our dog, and we’re being asked to share the space with a vehicle that weighs 450 pounds and goes 80 miles per hour,” said Gus Bekker, who heads a Wenatchee backcountry ski and snowshoe club and, with Mullins, founded the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition.

There have long been tensions between people who like to recreate in the winter on skis or snowshoes and those who prefer riding on a snow machine.

But a newly proposed Forest Plan has brought the issue to a head.

Snowmobilers are upset because the Forest Service may recommend changing popular snowmobile play areas into wilderness, which is off limits to snowmobiling.

And some non-motorized users aren’t happy because the plan makes no changes with regard to snowmobiles, even though the machines themselves — and their use on the forest — have changed dramatically since the last plan was enacted some 20 years ago.

“Any time there’s a change, it rolls down to us,” said Cal Anderson, president and groomer of the Apple Country Snowmobile Club.

He said when a skier or other winter user gets injured or lost out in the woods in the winter, ski patrols or the sheriff’s office call out the snowmobile clubs to help in the search. But if some areas used for winter recreation become wilderness, snowmobiles won’t be able to respond there, he noted.

Anderson said he’s not aware of any issues between skiers and snowmobilers sharing trails. “We really don’t have a problem with the skiers or snowboarders in our area,” he said. “In Lake Wenatchee, they share their trails with the dog sledders. Everybody seems to slow down for them — same with the skiers.”

But some skiers say slowing down — while respectful and appreciated — isn’t really the issue, although noise, emissions and safety are reasons they think that sharing trails doesn’t work.

Bekker and Mullins say snowmobiles have taken over the forest in the wintertime, and no one’s doing anything about it. “Your average hiker or person that recreates in the summer, if they actually knew the extent of forest domination by snowmobile riding in the winter, I think they would be outraged,” Bekker said. “We’ve gotten to the point where, through default, and by non-management, they’ve come to accept that the entire forest should be open to motorized use in the winter.”

He said the agency should be preparing for more non-motorized users, as national trends from 2006 to 2010 show a 47 percent decline in the sale of snowmobiles, while backcountry skiing, snowshoeing and alpine ski touring all grew.

Mullins said when he first raised the issue with the Forest Service, officials told him to bring his concerns to a committee developing the new Forest Plan, so he did. But now that the plan is out, he finds no change with respect to snowmobiles.

Forest Service officials say they agree snowmobiling on the forest needs to be addressed. But it’s not part of the proposed Travel Management Plan, which covers only motorized vehicles used in the summer, and it doesn’t belong in the Forest Plan.

Margaret Hartzell, the Forest Plan revision leader, said the level of detail needed to set aside certain areas for non-motorized winter use doesn’t fit with the broad over-reaching planning that’s set out in the Forest Plan.

The Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest recognizes that recreation trends are changing, and that snowmobiling must be addressed, said Mary Bean, Forest Service recreation manager. But currently, the agency is in the middle of reviewing a proposed Forest Plan and Travel Management Plan, and cannot take on another major forest-wide planning effort.

When the Forest Service does get around to developing a plan for winter recreation, it’s likely to cause a bit of a stir.

Andy Dappen, content editor for the online magazine WenatcheeOutdoors.org, said not even skiers and snowshoers agree among themselves about how the increasing use of snowmobiles should be addressed, particularly since some of them use snowmobiles to get to their favorite skiing spots. But most agree that there aren’t enough places set aside specifically for non-motorized users.

“The bigger issue for me is having places nearby where the average recreationist can go to have a quiet, relaxing outing,” he said. “Nowadays, life is pretty ramped up, and cross country skiers and snowshoers look at the outdoors as a quiet place to unwind. This isn’t compatible with the speed and noise of snowmobiles.”

He said it appears to be a problem, not just on the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest, but in many areas where snowmobilers and cross country and backcountry skiers mix. “It seems like an issue that hasn’t had an easy fix,” he said.

www.redding.com/news/2011/nov/14/snowmobiles-get-thumbs-up/

Lawsuit challenges snowmobiling in national forests; no restrictions in place yet

For the time being, north state snowmobilers won't have to worry about the U.S. Forest Service limiting where they can ride, even as a lawsuit challenging the recreational activity makes it way through federal court.

On Nov. 3, the Snowlands Network, Winter Wildlands Alliance and Center for Biological Diversity filed a civil suit in federal court challenging whether the U.S. Forest Service has adequately studied the potential harms snowmobiling causes California's forests. The groups allege snowmobiles are sources of toxic emissions, water and noise pollution, they disturb winter animals and damage snow-covered foliage. The suit also alleges snowmobiles are a nuisance for those who enjoy winter "nonmotorized recreation" like cross-country skiing and snowshoeing. The suit notes several members of the environmental groups are among those "seeking quiet recreation."

"Due to the adverse impacts of snowmobiles, other governmental agencies that have extensively studied snowmobile impacts — such as Yellowstone National Park — have imposed restrictions on the types and number of snowmobiles allowed, and severely limited the areas in which they may be used," according to the groups' complaint. "The Forest Service has not taken comparable action."

John Heil, a spokesman for the U.S. Forest Service's Pacific Southwest Region, said Monday forest administrators won't make any changes to how snowmobile riders access or use public lands while the suit is pending.

He declined to talk about the suit, saying the Forest Service doesn't comment on ongoing litigation.

The suit was condemned by at least one local snowmobile rider, Sylvia Milligan, the former north region director of California-Nevada Snowmobile Association. The Anderson woman called the suit "frivolous."

Milligan also is chairwoman of the Recreation Outdoor Coalition, a group that had challenged potential restrictions to off-highway vehicles on federal forest land.

She said snowmobile riders are a responsible group who ride machines that have limits on how much noise they can make and the amount of emissions they release. She said the state recently performed its own environmental reviews and found no problems.

"They couldn't sue against it (the state)," Milligan said. "Now, they're trying to sue the Forest Service."

Milligan notes her fellow riders have tried to foster positive relationships with snowshoers and skiers, many of whom enjoy trekking on the groomed snowmobile trails and the ungroomed paths the snowmobiles pack down.

"We try so hard to get along with these folks," she said.

There are 260 miles of groomed and ungroomed snowmobile trails on three national forests near Mt. Shasta. The primary access point for snowmobilers in the Shasta-Trinity National Forest is on the Pilgrim Creek Road outside of McCloud.

The suit says there are more than 1,700 miles of groomed snowmobile trails on California's national forests, providing snowmobile riders access to more than 8.3 million acres, a vastly larger amount than that given other nonmotorized recreation, where only 162 miles of trails are maintained for skiing and snowshoeing.

"He said the agency should be preparing for more non-motorized users, as national trends from 2006 to 2010 show a 47 percent decline in the sale of snowmobiles, while backcountry skiing, snowshoeing and alpine ski touring all grew."


This is not a trend because snowmobiles are not as popular, but because of a poor economy. You don't change permanent recreation use because of a bad economy. Also, I see you modified the date on a 2 year old thread with this years date....lol

Also, I see you modified the date on a 2 year old thread with this years date....lol 

I asked WMC to keep the bulk of the updates about this to this thread instead of starting new ones, so folks can see the history of the discussion and to minimize the number of advocacy-type posts here on the forum.

WMC has renamed this thread. The previous title was "Non-motorized Advocacy: Wenatchee Mtns Coalition", changed to "WMC Update 2012", despite the 669 out of 672 replies (99.6%) that occurred between April and September 2010. It may be an attempt to make the thread look vibrant and new.

In my opinion, WMC uses TAY as a legitimizing megaphone. No other conservation group nor commercial outfit so consistently stirs the pot. If the Sierra Club, or even WWA, were spamming us, I think the moderators might cut them off.  TAY is an excellent place to discuss snowmobile/skier interaction; the acceptance of the snowmobilers who chimed in is testament to that. Constructive discussion is rarely interrupted with missives and copied news articles. It's good that TAY is a place where a group like WMC can bring proposals up for discussion. It would be more appropriate, however, if after bringing it up, WMC got out of the way, let the discussion happen, and learned from the result.

Quite a bit of the content in this thread would be very appropriate for a WMC blog. I'd probably visit a couple times a year to see what they were up to. www.wenatcheemountainscoalition.com (and .org, .net, etc.) is available and could be readily linked to a wordpress.com or blogspot.com blog.

In addition, I'd like to raise the point that with statements like the one below, WMC consistently attempts to moderate threads in which WMC posts and generate the appearance of consensus.

Great arguments and thanks. .... Thanks, great discussion!

A hyperbolic example: A wolf asks a herd of sheep, "Can I have you for dinner?" The sheep reply, "BAAAA!?!" The wolf says, "Great discussion!" and eats them.

WMC has renamed this thread. The previous title was "Non-motorized Advocacy: Wenatchee Mtns Coalition", changed to "WMC Update 2012", despite the 669 out of 672 replies (99.6%) that occurred between April and September 2010. It may be an attempt to make the thread look vibrant and new.

In my opinion, WMC uses TAY as a legitimizing megaphone. No other conservation group nor commercial outfit so consistently stirs the pot. If the Sierra Club, or even WWA, were spamming us, I think the moderators might cut them off.  TAY is an excellent place to discuss snowmobile/skier interaction; the acceptance of the snowmobilers who chimed in is testament to that. Constructive discussion is rarely interrupted with missives and copied news articles. It's good that TAY is a place where a group like WMC can bring proposals up for discussion. It would be more appropriate, however, if after bringing it up, WMC got out of the way, let the discussion happen, and learned from the result.

Quite a bit of the content in this thread would be very appropriate for a WMC blog. I'd probably visit a couple times a year to see what they were up to. www.wenatcheemountainscoalition.com (and .org, .net, etc.) is available and could be readily linked to a wordpress.com or blogspot.com blog.

In addition, I'd like to raise the point that with statements like the one below, WMC consistently attempts to moderate threads in which WMC posts and generate the appearance of consensus.

A hyperbolic example: A wolf asks a herd of sheep, "Can I have you for dinner?" The sheep reply, "BAAAA!?!" The wolf says, "Great discussion!" and eats them.

Some folks actually read and understand the WMC postings. If one reads it, perhaps then it would be understood that there is new information or new developments, and yes, sometimes, covering the same ground for those who may ask or make a point. And yes, other than fielding the challenges I try to give strokes to posts that may go along, since their post is important also- and it is daunting to post on this topic other than attacking WMC because of the incessant nagging and hectoring of the discussion. And you changed the title because....attempted discouragement of discussion? Fairly transparent.