WMC Update 2012

You want parity, look a the state map and count the millions of acres of non-motorized already available.

Scotsman had the best suggestion, cut this movement off at the knees. Write your legislators. Don't let one special interest group control your access.

As for the rest of you guys let's work on a real plan that gets you better access perhaps realignment of other areas to achieve the seperation you wish without excluding a large user group from one fo the most popular areas in the state. Then we can present the USFS a workable plan that both sides can support.

What other areas? Be specific please about how you propose to "achieve the seperation." Which "we" are you representing? Snowmobile groups are well organized in groups such as WSSA and SAWS, certainly, a very well-funded special interest group. It is true that a small user group on snowmobiles is taking most of the available resource of snowy Forest slopes accessible outside of Wilderness...and a good share of the Wilderness also.

As we have mentioned above. all winter Forest users are encouraged to give input about their uses to USFS. USFS is producing a Draft that will be put out for public comment at some point.

Thank you.

Which "we" are you representing? Snowmobile groups are well organized in groups such as WSSA and SAWS, certainly, a very well-funded special interest group.

You have to be kidding me with these statements.  You know very little about these organizations, and yet you claim to know about their funding?  The WMC should know better to make accusations like these.  Snowombilers are interested in discussing the needs of all users.  Is the WMC is no longer interested in this discussion?

It is hilarious to think that SAWS is well funded, and WSSA too for that matter, in comparisons to the national organizations like Winter Wildlands Alliance and the Mountaineers.

It is sad to see  these misrepresentations being made by the WMC.

It is true that a small user group on snowmobiles is taking most of the available resource of snowy Forest slopes accessible outside of Wilderness...and a good share of the Wilderness also.

True? Based on what? A good share of the Wilderness? These baseless accusations and statements are getting tiring.

Please keep this discussion civil and truthful.

Thank you.

Let us consider, SAWS states it has 2200 members with donations of $5000 per year. SAWS donates to other organizations and to legal actions. "WSSA has spent over $200,000 in legal fees “Defending Your Rights.” ' WSSA has members including "2,200 families and nearly 100 snowmobile related businesses."

In contrast, the WMC Executive has a budget of $0. For safety reasons especially to keep our families out of it, no one will admit in public that they belong to WMC (another discussion to follow about that). WMC is a small group of citizens who talk to elected officials and USFS folks about trying to get designation of areas for winter non-motorized recreation.

We receive copies of letters in support, and keep those in confidence for the same reason that we keep our names out of public. WMC is entirely a framework for discussion, we go on Forums and start discussions, we talk to officials. Scotsman and some snowmobile advocates wish to cut WMC "off at the knees." WSSA submitted a letter of rebuttal to the USFS written by a marketing professional with a ski area email address. Is WMC a threat? No sir, but we hope that the power of a mobilized citizenry will show all the Organizations who it is that really owns our public lands. We encourage discussion and we talk to officials, we have no budget, no structure- we encourage skiers to speak up to ask for designation of winter non-motorized areas. We are anticipating more of that funding to be thrown at us, but as far as we know, the discussion of issues, advocacy by citizens, discussion with officials about our concerns, are all unassailable activities.

Snowmobile Alliance of Western States

From www.snowmobile-alliance.org/faq.asp

Does SAWS charge a membership fee?
No! Our goal is numbers, so that we can represent enough snowmobilers to have an impact on future land use decisions. We leverage email and our web site to support our mission. That is all we do! SAWS does not spend any of our members donated funds mailing our information to our members by US mail, which would be quite expensive to do, considering that we currently have over 2200 members. We will gladly accept donations to offset our costs. SAWS is a 501(c)(3) organization, so your donation may be tax deductible - contact your tax advisor.

Where does my donation to SAWS go?
SAWS receives less than $5000 a year in donations (based on a 3 yr average). We mainly use donated funds to cover our costs which consist of two teleconferences a year, web site fees, educational and promotional items, and occasionally we will request that a SAWS Rep attend a land use related function out of their local area or state of residence. If this occurs, which is very rare, the SAWS Directors usually agree to cover their costs. SAWS also donates funds to existing legal actions to protect snowmobile access, as SAWS has no legal team on retainer (but we are fortunate in that we receive some no-cost legal advice). We send donations to existing legal funds such as the BlueRibbon Coalition Legal Action Fund and other established funds. During 2006, we sent $1500 to fight the caribou related snowmobile closure in north Idaho. We temporarily bank excess funds from any given year in reserve, which will later be applied to the next legal issue or costs that SAWS determines is important to help protect snowmobile access.


Washington State Snowmobile Association

From www.wssa.us/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=431529

Today, our membership has grown to over 2,200 families and nearly 100 snowmobile related businesses. WSSA has lobbyists working in Olympia on behalf of folks owning more that 36,000 registered snowmobiles across the state. The Association mail out nearly 4,000 copies of its official publication, the Snoflyer, each month from September to March and another smaller edition during the summer months, so that the membership is kept up to date on happening in the snowmobiling world.

WSSA Fundraising letter:

URGENT ACTION NEEDED!!
BY YOU to SAVE YOUR Rights!!
We are about to Lose Major Riding Areas in our state that will pave the way to
make it easier for us to lose additional areas statewide in the future.
We are in a legal fight with the US Fish and Wildlife over the designation of critical
habitat for the Lynx. The designation Violates Several Federal Laws that if enforced would
make it harder for them to place more restrictions and limit our access to prime riding areas.
If we do not take legal action to challenge these actions and point out these violations they
will be free to close more lands without regard to these Federal violations in the future.
WSSA has spent over $200,000 in legal fees “Defending Your Rights” to this land
and other lands in this battle. We need at least $50,000 to finish this legal battle and this is
where you can help.We need donations to our legal fund ASAP! Large or small
donations, it all counts! Help us raise the funds to finish this fight, OrWe All Lose!
Make your contribution now by mailing a check to:
WSSA Treasurer
LEGAL ACTION FUND
P.O. Box 225
Newman Lake WA 99025
You can also contribute by credit card by completing and mailing the form below or you can make your
contribution online at www.wssa.us (Click on ‘Donation’ and then ‘Legal Action Fund Donation’ -A transaction fee may apply)

(End cc)

About the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition

Purpose: Advocacy for non-motorized winter recreation on Forest Lands.
Goal: Designation of USFS Non-Motorized areas for winter recreation. Specifically, we seek non-motorized status for the pristine unroaded crest of the Wenatchee Mountains.
Can you donate to WMC? No, thank you, we dedicate our own efforts to this advocacy, and we will not reveal our identities in public anyway. You may help by contacting USFS to ask for designation of areas for winter non-motorized recreation (see Page 1 of this thread)

Thank you.

and how does SAWS and WSSA compare against WWA and the mountaineers?

WWA had 500k in revenue last year..
www.winterwildlands.org/news/reports/WWA_W09_AnnualReport.pdf
Seems the majority of purpose for the WWA is to help create groups like the WMC to try and push FS to create comprehensive travel plans subdividing usage areas. Their goals are also to reduce the amount of terrain available for motorized uses. The WWA is supporting the actions of the WMC. While the WMC might be a very small group of people, the WWA and the Mountaineers put big numbers and big money into this. Something that the snowmobile community lacks and does not have.

Your comparisons are lacking substance.. Maybe you can compare the WMC to the 4m. That might work. 0 funds as well, members, well, I guess that would be the people responding on these threads... To make the assumption that it is only the WMC, all on its own, is false. You guys are getting help from big players..

Scotsman and some snowmobile advocates wish to cut WMC "off at the knees."

The proposal, not the group... jeez....

FYI, Scotsman I don't think even snowmobiles. Many people who are against this proposal don't either. They are against the proposal because it isn't needed, because during their many backcountry visits, there is no conflict that can be found. I believe Scotsmans point was that it is not appropriate for one special interest group (WMC) to make a proposal on its own without having input from the rest of the user group. The public land is just that, public. All peoples opinions and considerations should be heard and acknowldged. This is something that the WMC has consistently failed to do, and the reason for the statement above..

This is OUR land, we ALL should have a say in how it is used, not just one small group, pretending to speak on the behalf of all non-motorized users, especially when their methodology is to get everything that they can.

... To make the assumption that it is only the WMC, all on its own, is false. You guys are getting help from big players..

Thank you , we all will have a big belly laugh about that one! WWA picked up our cause and posted it on their threads. They have emailed. We really appreciate that. I am not aware of other help, will be thrilled when it arrives, and I do not think we three partners hold out on each other. Really, that made me laugh!

After getting going with this, we learned that basically we are coming to this cause late, several entities have previously wanted the Teanaway crest and Wenatchee Mountains to be managed as we propose to some degree. But perhaps now you cannot complain about monotone repetitive WMC responses. Oh well, keep it up, we need to laugh!

Thank you.