Censorship etc... have at it

Jeez, couldn't there have been a few posts between mine and Marcus'?

Mia culpa, of course, but I offer two excuses - it sounded like a good idea at 3AM, and second, it's a once in a lifetime chance..   

might be something relevant in there, hell, I don't know..

I thought your post was hilarious and totally on point.

One thing about this thread has me scratching my head. So critiquing TGR and yet still posting over there is apparently not cool. But critiquing TAY and yet still posting here is fine? ??? Seems like only one or the other of those two sentences would be correct in any consistent value system (and one might of course argue for either - I tend to lean on the side of believing that some respectful critique of a community that one chooses to be part of is a healthy thing). But maybe I'm missing a nuance here.

Jeez, couldn't there have been a few posts between mine and Marcus'?
Mia culpa, of course, but I offer two excuses - it sounded like a good idea at 3AM, and second, it's a once in a lifetime chance..
might be something relevant in there, hell, I don't know..

I liked it too.
But, of course, I'm somewhat short on "best moderator on the planet" awards, too.

One thing about this thread has me scratching my head. So critiquing TGR and yet still posting over there is apparently not cool. But critiquing TAY and yet still posting here is fine?

TGR has some great qualities as well as some not-so-great qualities. TAY has its own mix good and bad qualities as well. It seems to me that criticism of TGR (and other sites) on TAY has been in the context of "How do we avoid importing the bad stuff while bringing in the good stuff?" There's no simple answer that I know of, so TAY has made changes slowly and incrementally.

It makes little sense to say that if you criticize some aspects of a site you can't participate there. The best way make a site more to your liking is to post the kind of stuff you would prefer to read. Take CascadeClimbers for example. I don't think anybody would dispute that there is an awful lot of crap on that site. I think so myself--and now I've said so on line. But I continue to contribute there. I just try not to post stuff that I think is crap.

What Travertine said.

And bonus points for Sweet Baby Jesus.

TAY helps me get connected and get out far more than I would if it didn't exist. The tone of the site is definitely part of that. The site certainly has its own quirks and biases, but people feel more willing to post here. The moderation, while never perfect (it never is) supports that. Overall, the formula seems to work.

It might make sense to add a separate forum that's not moderated for tone or politeness. Maybe a Spray forum like at CC.com. That way we'd still get the entertainment & educational value out of these beefier discussions, but perhaps without making folks feel like its not worth logging on and asking a potentially dumb question (are there any dumb questions? depends on which site you're posting to...). Adding that kind of a sandbox might work.

But overall, this place works right now. It gets folks useful information (caveat emptor as always), gets them connected, and helps to get them out skiing.

And sweet baby Jesus, let's all hope for some snow!

There's a huge difference between critiquing a site and being totally dismissive and infering its inhabitants not worthwhile.

I critique TAY but also express my love for it and that it's my first love.. check the record!
I also have defended TAY and TAYers on other websites when I thought it's inhabitants were being dismissed and generalized in a derogatory fashion.

It's been an interesting discussion and very illuminating as to what happens when moderation ceases. TAY'ers have a dark side too that proves that moderation IS required to keep a discussion sensible and meaningful without turning into a slanging match. I have never disputed that, not has it been my position. I've stated my position ad nauseum so I'll not repeat it, only in that over sensitivity to tone to the nth degree causes unfair moderation and stifles discussion..

Nobody likes criticism even when it's delivered within the rules, me included. I've read the posts and there's some things been said in critique of me that , hard as it is to admit it, are true and I'll try and learn from them BUT there's also things I've said that are true and maybe some of you and TAY can reflect on those also.

Hopefully my friends will forgive me and if not, so be it. You live by the sword , you die by the sword.