No skiing below Pebble Creek

Ron thanks , but I am not trying to be coy like some Vice Presidential candidate wanting the nomination but pretending not to. I'll help but I'm NOT the right person for the job. My views are too extreme and although moderated occasionally by infrequent attacks of maturity, my knowledge base of the issues is not sufficient.

Larry Trotter picked up on what I think is paramount to any conversation with the NPS and my point in my previous post in that the NPS (especially when you read their plan) just doesn't understand  extended season Alpine Touring.

Others are more knowledgeable. People like Joedebaker have been working on issues like this for years and where involved in the original fight over the Crystal Boundary. We need respected voices like that.  Picture this, unlighted cigarette in my mouth, creepy Scottish accent as snow bell calls it , says" OK Superintendent, lets cut the BS and talk turkey, dude"

I do however think, now is the time to form a group to get ready to discuss issues with the NPS during the coming winter months when they will have more time. It would be a shame it we let the momentum slip and apathy take over. Maybe we should convene a meeting by invitation on this board to establish what the consensus IS on what we want to talk to the NPS about and see how many attend!
Want to take up this baton Gary, RonJ??

READ LARRY TROTTERS LINK to the history of skier/Park conflicts. It's amazing and if you think extended season Alpine Touring is guaranteed to be allowed in the park without advocacy on it's behalf, this history of Park /Sker conflict should  change your views.

Thanks for the information.
Do you have e-mail addresses for the following gentlemen you mention.
Steve Klump
Chuck Young
Dave Uberuaga
It's difficult to get through at times on the phone and the whole world seems to communicate by e-mail these days.
Thanks

All are in the format firstname_lastname@nps.gov, and this is true of most of us in the NPS directory. (In the case of a few names you have to decide between "Jim" or "James," and those with common names sometimes have the middle initial added. But all of the above names follow the standard format.)

Just FYI, even though it's sometimes hard to track them down, you'll probably get a more satisfying response if you call than if you e-mail.

Scotty - thanks for investigating this issue.

This prompted me to think about what I do ,and my code of ethics. The question I asked myself was this. It's spring, Nisqually chute has corn. There is no snow until above Pan point. I hike on the trail carrying skis to Pebble Creek. I skin to the top of the chute, I ski the chute but o get back to Glacier Vista I have to hike through an area of sub-alpine flowers to get back to the Glacier Vista trail. Acceptable or not???

Your question of ethics also applies to the Slush Cup on the Pinnacle snowfield.

A mathematical formula I think best illustrates my personal feelings on the slushcup

slushcup=women in cold water and teeshirts= too much fun therefore>ethics.

READ LARRY TROTTERS LINK to the history of skier/Park conflicts. It's amazing and if you think extended season Alpine Touring is guaranteed to be allowed in the park without advocacy on it's behalf, this history of Park/Skier conflict should change your views.

Here's the direct link to the administrative history chapter about skiing:

www.nps.gov/archive/mora/adhi/adhi14.htm

It's important to remember that this chapter describes a time when Mt Rainier was making the transition from being the premiere lift-served ski resort in Washington (in the 1930s) to being a place for dispersed and non-mechanized recreation in winter (today's situation). The lessons aren't a direct parallel to the present.

I think it's a good idea for skiers to make their interests known to the park service. Extended season skiing is not new at Mt Rainier. In the 1930 Mountaineer Annual, Bill Maxwell wrote an article about "Skiing Eight Months a Year" on Rainier and elsewhere. This article was quoted in Lou Dawson's Wild Snow book, where Maxwell writes about the "wild ecstasy of speed". Today, of course, we know that people ski twelve months a year. Here are a few notes from the article:

www.alpenglow.org/ski-history/notes/peri...ml#mtneer-a-1930-p53

Mountaineer Annual, 1930, p. 53, Maxwell, W.J., "Skiing Eight Months a Year"

The author observes that a few years earlier the Puget Sound skiing season ran from Christmas through Washington's Birthday, while now it extends from early November through late June. He describes tours done around Mt Rainier: Indian Henry's Hunting Ground, Cowlitz Rocks to the Paradise River, Pinnacle-Castle saddle, Camp Muir, Paradise to the Nisqually glacier snout, and from Steamboat Prow (Interglacier) to Storbo mining camp in Glacier basin. He also describes tours around Mt Baker: Table Mountain, Shuksan Arm, Lake Ann, Kulshan Ridge, Coleman Glacier, Chain Lakes and mentions the recent ski ascent of Baker itself. He includes a colorful description of the descent from Steamboat Prow and mentions that most of these trips have been done as a "week-end holiday." Quote: "The snow peaks of Washington offer an infinite variety of ski trips, that some day will lure to the Northwest skiers from distant places."

Thanks  Lowell as always for the excellent references.
Your point is well taken and it's not an exact parallel but I guess my point is that NPS policies change over time based upon what the public is perceived to want or what the NPS considers is causing  damage to the Park.

Sure extended season Alpine Touring or even all year skiing in the park is not new but not in the numbers that are presently doing it or the growth that is expected. Also bureaucracies by their very nature have a history of creating new rules all the time whose end result may or not be fully realized at the time.

I would refer you to your post about the ranger stopping GregSimon from building kickers. It seems a silly thing initially until you expand upon what that could mean or be further interpreted by the over zealous as your comments in that post correctly ,in my opinion, point out.

Thanks for your support on a group to talk to the NPS. You are recognised and respected leader in the backcountry skiing community. Want to volunteer?