No skiing below Pebble Creek

I'm a firm believer in cussing out the park service on a daily basis.They deserve it. I spend at least 5 minutes every day cussing them out.

I told myself I would keep my mouth shut 'cause my wording ends up coming out wrong and I offend people unintentionally - so, not trying to do that...First of all, based on Scotsman's character and what a great person he seems to be, I have decided to add this into my morning routine with my tea and teethbrushing. 

Skipole, a couple of frequent TAYers and myself have done quite a few trips together, increasingly so this past year, and on a few actually did dig out MRNP bathrooms and ranger stations.  Believe me, there was far more than 5 feet of snow on the ground and for the most part we followed the roads and trails all the way in depending on where it was.  Sunrise still had a delayed opening.  Where is the follow-through with the deal?  We know it's not your responsibility, and I don't think anyone on here would put the so-called "park regulations" or NPS enforcement on the shoulders of a volunteer uniform.  However, instead of bashing us with talk of "who gives a fig about who", I would suggest using the role that you do have to try to repair the bridge rather than burn it.

When an issue like this is thrown in front of this community, it is obviously touchy.  I did a bit of research (NPS website and calling up to Rainier) so it is right from the Ranger's mouths - I spoke with Melissa, and Brienn who offered me this information:

The park brings in a bit more than 2 MILLION visitors a year.  Their main problems, especially during this busy time of year, is parking, followed by trail maintenence/wilderness preservation.  When asked who is often most damaging to preservation, I was told specifically, "...mostly the day hikers or your average tourist.  They do the most damage because they don't really know much better.  They don't know what they're stepping on."  I then asked about climbers and skiers specifically being damaging and was told, "No, they are actually some of the best visitors.  They typically know what they're doing and make little to no impact."  4500-5000 people annually climb Rainier - which off the NPS website means go above 10,000 ft.  It seems to me that given the numbers, you're barking up the wrong tree.  Thought this was interesting too...maybe you should start posting up on PGA.com as well...

An interesting "Did you know" fact from the NPS webpage:
_{Did You Know?
Paradise Meadows was once home to a golf course, a rope tow for skiers, and to Camp of the Clouds. All of these activities damaged the meadows, as does walking off-trail. Management practices have changed over the years and we now protect and restore our precious subalpine meadows.}

I was not able to get info on the costs of the VC, but to all interested, I also heard from two different Rangers, one of them having worked Paradise during the winter that there are NO RESTRICTIONS TO SKIERS ON THE MOUNTAIN.  When asked about the questioned area, the same was repeated to me.

_{Modified to add picture.}

In the last 7 years, the Bush admn has adopted the biodiversity preservation for parks because, IMHO, it is a way of not funding parks (you don't need to fund what you want to keep people out of--let nature do it).

Isn't that the truth!

Is there any chance "skipole" is just a creature from under the bridge in Fremont?

Also, my only really bad interactions at MRNP have been with volunteer rangers. I got holy hell camping at Glacier Basin when I only had a permit confirmation number and not an actual permit. I couldn't get a physical permit as they close too early, and the ranger on the phone said the number was plenty.... Mr Volunteer went nuts on his radio, threating us with death and dismemberment, unyil the ranger we had talked to got on the horn and shut him up. sigh. "You pay your money and take your chances..."

Skipole, I want to be upfront and tell you that I took Rusty's advice and complained about you to Kevin-Bacher. Below is what I sent.

Dear Kevin,
I was told to contact you with any complaints regarding park volunteers. Please see the attached thread on TAY started by a volunteer named skipole. Although the original message regarding not stompimg flora was good and well-intentioned , the officious tone and arrogant attiutude does nothing to promote what is a growing rift between the backcountry skiing community and the NPS.
I thought you should be informed as to what is going on. See this thread www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=10692.0

Skipole sees to be one of these people who crave badges and volunteer shirts and then likes to tell everybody what to do. He/She is doing a terrible job in communicating with the skiing public and seems to be taking on an official tone regarding NPS policy.

Can you rein in your feral volunteer please!
I don't expect you'll do anything in fact you'll probably give him/her another badge but at least I tried.

Chris Willis

Boyo, this thread was destined to go not-smoothly.  It's a fine example of the kind of communication and interaction that will only serve to widen the rift that so many folks have mentioned.

Scotsman, this seems like a fine place for your "skier advocacy" group, eh?  I know Gator and a few other NPS staff post here from time to time and I imagine this thread will get some attention via your email -- maybe we can use it as a jumping off point to make some progress on this issue.  The us/them trend isn't going to help anyone.

*** Edit

To push the discussion in that direction, I agree with whitethunder that most of the skiers I know are pretty big advocates for conservation and stewardship of the land we use. If more education was available, via NPS website updates, signs posted near the parking lot during the sensitive "between times" as the snowpack thins, I think that most folks would do what they could to minimize the impact. It will always be a touchy subject when brought up by a perceived "authority" figure, whether volunteer or not, especially given the amount of misinformation and inconsistency that we've seen even in this thread.

I told myself I would keep my mouth shut 'cause my wording ends up coming out wrong and I offend people unintentionally - so, not trying to do that...First of all, based on Scotsman's character and what a great person he seems to be, I have decided to add this into my morning routine with my tea and teethbrushing. 

Skipole, a couple of frequent TAYers and myself have done quite a few trips together, increasingly so this past year, and on a few actually did dig out MRNP bathrooms and ranger stations.  Believe me, there was far more than 5 feet of snow on the ground and for the most part we followed the roads and trails all the way in depending on where it was.  Sunrise still had a delayed opening.  Where is the follow-through with the deal?  We know it's not your responsibility, and I don't think anyone on here would put the so-called "park regulations" or NPS enforcement on the shoulders of a volunteer uniform.  However, instead of bashing us with talk of "who gives a fig about who", I would suggest using the role that you do have to try to repair the bridge rather than burn it.

When an issue like this is thrown in front of this community, it is obviously touchy.  I did a bit of research (NPS website and calling up to Rainier) so it is right from the Ranger's mouths - I spoke with Melissa, and Brienn who offered me this information:

The park brings in a bit more than 2 MILLION visitors a year.  Their main problems, especially during this busy time of year, is parking, followed by trail maintenence/wilderness preservation.  When asked who is often most damaging to preservation, I was told specifically, "...mostly the day hikers or your average tourist.  They do the most damage because they don't really know much better.  They don't know what they're stepping on."  I then asked about climbers and skiers specifically being damaging and was told, "No, they are actually some of the best visitors.  They typically know what they're doing and make little to no impact."  4500-5000 people annually climb Rainier - which off the NPS website means go above 10,000 ft.  It seems to me that given the numbers, you're barking up the wrong tree.  Thought this was interesting too...maybe you should start posting up on PGA.com as well...

An interesting "Did you know" fact from the NPS webpage:
_{Did You Know?
Paradise Meadows was once home to a golf course, a rope tow for skiers, and to Camp of the Clouds. All of these activities damaged the meadows, as does walking off-trail. Management practices have changed over the years and we now protect and restore our precious subalpine meadows.}

I was not able to get info on the costs of the VC, but to all interested, I also heard from two different Rangers, one of them having worked Paradise during the winter that there are NO RESTRICTIONS TO SKIERS ON THE MOUNTAIN.  When asked about the questioned area, the same was repeated to me.

_{Modified to add picture.}

Well Done, Stugie,
Nice bacground work.