No skiing below Pebble Creek

This is interesting.  I read it and I checked the MORA website--no mention of it; I called the MORA telephone line and went thru their answering tree--no mention of it; earlier today I rode my motorcycle up to Paradise to check snow conditions in the event I would go skiing tomorrow--I saw no signs saying no skiing and what appeared to be sufficient snow to protect the veg on the normal route up Mazama from 4th crossing.  

I know from past years they "recommend" [language on the website] not skiing in less than 5 feet of snow; and i don't ski where veg is visible thru the snow; if the snow is skimpy I take my skis off and hike the trail til the snow is deep.  I have no desire to damage the plants.  In fact, last year I left my skis at home when the snow got skimpy and went hiking and stopped a MORA-volunteer-somenone skiing on vegetation between patches of snow below Alta Vista and told them they could get a citation  for that and that person said they had been skiing  in the same spot the day before with the woman in charge of revegetation ... etc.  So, what to believe?  And what should the park visitor do, when in good faith they check the website (including the park regulations) and the phone line and find nothing about restrictions and drive several hours to get to Paradise and get the gear ready and begin going up and then are told "oh, btw, you can't do that ... there's now an unwritten general rule of no skiing below Pebble Creek ..."

What does no skiing below Pebble Creek mean? Below that elevation?  Between Pebble Creek and Paradise? Can you ski (on snow) below McClure Rock, to the Paradise River on Mazama Ridge (in snow)? Can you ski the Paradise Glacier?  Last week I skied to Cowlitz Rocks, plenty of snow, all below Pebble Creek.

My main question is when is MORA going to start handing out customer satisfaction cards to be mailed in to a central office like many USFS offices were required to do--MORA management really needs some stockholder feedback.

I agree that there is fair amount of chaos among the park system volunteers and that you aren't going to get a consistent story from all the volunteers (or even the rangers).   The park doesn't really have the resources to perform extensive education, training or screening of the volunteers.   Occasionally volunteers will make mistakes.

If you have a problem with a volunteer ranger that seems misinformed or rude -- contact Kevin_Bacher@nps.gov -- he is the volunteer coordinator.

If you feel inclined to help the park -- check-out rainiervolunteers.blogspot.com/

The park doesn't really have the resources ... If you feel inclined to help the park -- check-out rainiervolunteers.blogspot.com/

They do have the resources to update their phone messages and website; it takes only minutes. I do feel inclined to help the park--I pay my taxes (very substantial ones, I pay my fees, and I have assisted rangers when they needed it and the befuddled public as well (lost/turned around/in the wrong place at the wrong time) on multiple occasions.

Unfortunately, I don't perceive the park management as feeling "inclined to help" the public ... particularly the public that prefers muscle-powered backcountry experiences in the winter/snow season ... in fact many of their actions seem designed to spite the public (as discussed here before).

As a volunteer can you do anything about getting Sunrise opened earlier next year? Thanks.

I would agree to work on it if the skier community agreed to act responsibly. However I can tell you that the park's past experience with the skier community has not been good. Burroughs Mountain is a rare, isolated arctic tundra plant community that has remained since the last ice age. Skiers regularly go off trail ruining the vegetation there in order to get to snow patches. The park service would need to know that this would not be occurring. It only takes a few noncompliant skiers to mess it up for everyone.

Further thoughts; backcountry skiers and climbers have always been a fairly anti-establishment  types and getting told by a stranger not to do something never sits well. Maybe people would obey your instructions more if you had a badge or a hat. As a volunteer do you get a badge or a hat? I think it would help!

I had both a park-issued shirt with badges on each sleeve and a hat with official badge. The rude visitor additionally saw my communication over a park-issued radio and heard it from the ranger. Now anyone reading this thread is on notice that you shouldn't ski there.

There's at least 2 subjects I'm bringing up: 1) At least 2 park rangers have determined that under the current snow conditions that visitors should not be skiing until they get to Pebble Creek. and 2) the right thing to do is to not ski until you get to Pebble Creek.

I agree that the park should and could do more to communicate the policy more broadly and more clearly. But those responding in this thread have ignored the second point - it's the right thing to do to not ski in a heavily used area where even if skiing on the snow you could be damaging the vegetation or creating social trails.

The Park Service would be more respected if they had a bit more credibility.
The rangers are not the problem, but rather the policies of the upper management of the park, the rangers are just the public face of the backwards rules and policies. When they ticket people for riding their bicycles on closed paved roads (Sunrise, last year), and they close Paradise for everyone except for guided clients and construction workers because the toilets are broken they lose credibility (this winter). When they force you to work within their limited administrative hours for climbing permits, yet they enforce the use of permits on the upper mountain 24/7, they are not winning any supporters.
After such stupid policy edicts from the Park Service, when they make a perfectly reasonable suggestion of "no skiing on the flowers" it falls on deaf ears because they have abused their arbitrary administrative power and have proclaimed so many stupid rules for so long. They are not taken seriously as stewards of OUR public lands, because they have not taken good care of OUR resources in so many different ways for so long.
I think the blame falls as much on the Park Service as it falls on the taxpayer who is using their park.

And so another mini-tempest begins...

The NPS does a pretty good job of managing the crowds and preserving a semblance of tundra in the meadows. The paved trail does a nice job of resisting the pounding of many feet. It's critical that many many people/citizens/voters get enough of a taste of our superlative wild places to want to continue to preserve them. It's a fabulous place up there. The way NPS manages it could be far, far worse.

It'll raise the hackles of a lot of skiers, myself included, to tell them that they can't ski on existing snow on public land. Making absolute moral statements about what's "right" won't help matters.

There are a lot of places to ski that aren't at Paradise.