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Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming"
- Lowell_Skoog
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19 years 6 months ago - 19 years 6 months ago #175832
by Lowell_Skoog
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming"
The idea that the world's problems would go away if people would just become more enlightened, if individuals would be less selfish, isn't that one of those discredited ideas from the utopian Left? 
Whatever the case, here is a story about somebody who seems to walk the talk, from today's Seattle Times.
I'm as sympathetic as the next guy to the utopian ideal, but my take on human nature is that everybody competes with everybody else, and the only way you can attack a problem such as this (if you agree that it is a problem) is to adjust the rules for everybody and let individuals figure out how to adapt to the new playing field.
Whatever the case, here is a story about somebody who seems to walk the talk, from today's Seattle Times.
I'm as sympathetic as the next guy to the utopian ideal, but my take on human nature is that everybody competes with everybody else, and the only way you can attack a problem such as this (if you agree that it is a problem) is to adjust the rules for everybody and let individuals figure out how to adapt to the new playing field.
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- garyabrill
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19 years 6 months ago #175833
by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming"
As to the glaciers melting, it is not so much that they are and have been on average over the past 14000 years, it's the rate of melting that is disconcerting. Remember the icemen appearing in Europe ( a number of them) buried thousands of years ago? Last fall I found a mature larch, long dead, that was some 600 ft above the treeline for similar sized trees. It had just melted out of permanent ice under which it had been buried long enough for all traces of similar larches in the area to have been completely eradicated, rotted to not noticeable plus for enough time for the larch to become mature at 7000' in an unfavorable (today) location. So that larch has melted out in the past 2 years or so and it grew probably pre Little Ice age - something like 800 years ago. And now it is some distance from a small ice patch - hard to believe it was under ice since 600 years ago or so and just by chance it's melted out all of a sudden. Hard to believe it is just chance, especially with CO2 at the highest levels in 450,000 years. If I was a betting man....
By the way, worst typhoon in China in 50 years today and the first Blue Footed Booby on the Washington coast since 1935 also today - remember the Dust Bowl.
Also signs of yet another El Nino again this winter. When was the last La Nina? ...something like 98-99. Yet there have been, what-El Ninos about every two years. That part makes sense, but the El Ninos have gotten stronger and the La Ninas barely reach neutral sea temps. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that pattern will continue, stronger and more frequent El Ninos and infrequent and near neutral La Ninas. Twenty years from now, if the pattern continues as it has changed in the past thirty years (see CO2) it will be strong El Ninos and very infrequent weak La Ninas in the Pacific. I think that is what the looking glass forecasts into the future in the NW (and Alaska and Canada) are predicting. That is why it is expected that temperature anomalies will be greatest in these areas. The future forecasts are showing the same pattern that you get in El Nino years. They show brief and ever briefer reversals until ultimately the reversals seem to stop.
As to no hurricanes in the Atlantic, if you watched the last tropical storm off the Caribbean, it was torn about by wind shear not that it failed to develop because of warmer sea surface temperatures. That's why they are still forecasting a significant hurricane season in the N Atlantic-the ocean temperatures are very warm.
By the way, worst typhoon in China in 50 years today and the first Blue Footed Booby on the Washington coast since 1935 also today - remember the Dust Bowl.
Also signs of yet another El Nino again this winter. When was the last La Nina? ...something like 98-99. Yet there have been, what-El Ninos about every two years. That part makes sense, but the El Ninos have gotten stronger and the La Ninas barely reach neutral sea temps. If I was a betting man, I'd bet that pattern will continue, stronger and more frequent El Ninos and infrequent and near neutral La Ninas. Twenty years from now, if the pattern continues as it has changed in the past thirty years (see CO2) it will be strong El Ninos and very infrequent weak La Ninas in the Pacific. I think that is what the looking glass forecasts into the future in the NW (and Alaska and Canada) are predicting. That is why it is expected that temperature anomalies will be greatest in these areas. The future forecasts are showing the same pattern that you get in El Nino years. They show brief and ever briefer reversals until ultimately the reversals seem to stop.
As to no hurricanes in the Atlantic, if you watched the last tropical storm off the Caribbean, it was torn about by wind shear not that it failed to develop because of warmer sea surface temperatures. That's why they are still forecasting a significant hurricane season in the N Atlantic-the ocean temperatures are very warm.
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- Randonnee
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19 years 6 months ago #175844
by Randonnee
Replied by Randonnee on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming
EL NIÑO/SOUTHERN OSCILLATION (ENSO)
DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION
issued by
CLIMATE PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP
August 10, 2006
Weekly ENSO Update (PDF, PPT) - updated Mondays
Synopsis: ENSO-neutral conditions are expected to continue for the next one to three months, with a 50% chance that weak El Niño conditions will develop by the end of 2006.
DIAGNOSTIC DISCUSSION
issued by
CLIMATE PREDICTION CENTER/NCEP
August 10, 2006
Weekly ENSO Update (PDF, PPT) - updated Mondays
Synopsis: ENSO-neutral conditions are expected to continue for the next one to three months, with a 50% chance that weak El Niño conditions will develop by the end of 2006.
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- Randonnee
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19 years 6 months ago #175854
by Randonnee
Replied by Randonnee on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming
Obama Warns of Gas Guzzling Cars in Town Hall Meeting
Tue Aug 15 2006 21:47:08 ET
Illinois Senator Barack Obama warns citizens at his 50th Town Hall meeting about gas guzzling, WPSD-TV reports...
He says part of the blame for the world's higher temperatures rests on gas guzzling vehicles. Obama says consumers can make the difference by switching to higher mileage hybrids.
Today the Senator said, "It would save more energy, do more for the environment and create better world security than all the drilling we could do in Alaska."
"After the meeting... Obama left in a GMC Envoy after admitting to favoring SUV's himself," claimed local News Channel 6.
www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm
Tue Aug 15 2006 21:47:08 ET
Illinois Senator Barack Obama warns citizens at his 50th Town Hall meeting about gas guzzling, WPSD-TV reports...
He says part of the blame for the world's higher temperatures rests on gas guzzling vehicles. Obama says consumers can make the difference by switching to higher mileage hybrids.
Today the Senator said, "It would save more energy, do more for the environment and create better world security than all the drilling we could do in Alaska."
"After the meeting... Obama left in a GMC Envoy after admitting to favoring SUV's himself," claimed local News Channel 6.
www.drudgereport.com/flash3.htm
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- Randonnee
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19 years 6 months ago - 19 years 6 months ago #175863
by Randonnee
Replied by Randonnee on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming
11 August 2006
Antarctic Snowfall Snafu Derails Climate Models
An improved method of measuring Antarctic snowfall has revealed that previous records showing an increase in precipitation are not accurate, even over a half-century...The upshot of the study is that models assessing climate-change may need to be revised, as they can no longer be deemed accurate.
www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060711004957data_trunc_sys.shtml
Not As Bad As We Thought!
Filed under: Glaciers/Sea Ice, Sea Level Rise —
www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/200...s-bad-as-we-thought/
California Seal Pups Predict Pacific Ocean Cooling
Monday June 20, 2005
Dennis Avery
A new study of California elephant seal pups and their weaning weights predicts that a 25-year cycle warming has ended, and the second half of a 50-year cycle has begun to cool the northern Pacific. Historical fish catch data indicate the ocean cooling trend is likely to last until about 2025.
www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/california-s...acific-ocean-cooling
Ocean and Climate by David Herring
Predictive computer models indicate that given a steady rise in levels of greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, there will be a corresponding increase in surface temperatures. Yet surprisingly, despite a 30 percent increase in carbon dioxide levels since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, temperatures haven't risen as much as the models predicted. Why? Because greenhouse gases aren't the only influence on temperature. There are many other variables--such clouds, aerosols, and the ocean--that also affect temperature...
In recent decades, the ocean has partially offset the anticipated global warming due to rising greenhouse gas levels by exerting a cooling effect on climate. But, over the long run, scientists don't know whether the ocean's cooling influence will persist.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/OceanClimate/
Antarctic Snowfall Snafu Derails Climate Models
An improved method of measuring Antarctic snowfall has revealed that previous records showing an increase in precipitation are not accurate, even over a half-century...The upshot of the study is that models assessing climate-change may need to be revised, as they can no longer be deemed accurate.
www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060711004957data_trunc_sys.shtml
Not As Bad As We Thought!
Filed under: Glaciers/Sea Ice, Sea Level Rise —
www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/200...s-bad-as-we-thought/
California Seal Pups Predict Pacific Ocean Cooling
Monday June 20, 2005
Dennis Avery
A new study of California elephant seal pups and their weaning weights predicts that a 25-year cycle warming has ended, and the second half of a 50-year cycle has begun to cool the northern Pacific. Historical fish catch data indicate the ocean cooling trend is likely to last until about 2025.
www.cgfi.org/cgficommentary/california-s...acific-ocean-cooling
Ocean and Climate by David Herring
Predictive computer models indicate that given a steady rise in levels of greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, there will be a corresponding increase in surface temperatures. Yet surprisingly, despite a 30 percent increase in carbon dioxide levels since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, temperatures haven't risen as much as the models predicted. Why? Because greenhouse gases aren't the only influence on temperature. There are many other variables--such clouds, aerosols, and the ocean--that also affect temperature...
In recent decades, the ocean has partially offset the anticipated global warming due to rising greenhouse gas levels by exerting a cooling effect on climate. But, over the long run, scientists don't know whether the ocean's cooling influence will persist.
earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Library/OceanClimate/
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- philfort
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19 years 6 months ago #175864
by philfort
Replied by philfort on topic Re: Seattle Times: "The truth about global warming"
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