Secret stashes, exploration, solitude, and more

I don't mind if people get out there and enjoy my stash or if I meet other people. The more who get out there to enjoy the mountains better quarantees the mountains we love will be there for our children. I do understand that there is a limit, but I have been very few places that are overcrowded and where I've had any bad experience with the people I've met. I understand though, if I have a few hour approach for a good line that I'm not always guaranteed a powder stashed run. That doesn't bother me. If I get any skiing at all, I'm happy and there are a lot of ways down a mountain. I also believe that the effort and cost of ski mountaineering will always keep most places people free. Well, that is if you avoid the Muir hut on Saturday of course ...

But do you publicize all the routes you love on the internet? Accepting company is gracious and good and practical. How far does your graciousness go?<br><br>Tim - for what it's worth, I appreciate old route descriptions and guidebooks and so forth. Thanks for your efforts in that direction. <br><br>But I'll admit to some inconsistency on this topic, in that I also only am willing to publicize some of the tours I've found on my own. I'll take new folks to my "secrets," which as Charles says may be all it takes to publicize (and which are also likely other people's secrets which is fine as it's public land), but...

If people look for the goods within a close, convenient drive, and a negligible approach, it's gonna be a crapshoot. To live in an urbanized region expect anything else is ridiculous. It's just like everyone moving to the foothills because it's pretty. Soon there won't be any foothills, just a bunch of lousy subdivisions. (Soon there won't be any secret fresh, just a bunch of backcountry mogul fields.)<br><br>If you really want to get away, there's a guaranteed way to do it... bust some ass. I have also found that making the transition from looking for a few good turns to looking for a big route essentially guarantees solitude.<br><br>I'll publicize anything I do. I don't really care how many people do it. I don't like to do the same thing over and over again, so what do I care if others join the fun? Is the idea that you want this stash fresh and untracked any time for your convenience? That sounds really selfish to me.<br><br>On another note, I'd like to see someone else ski the routes I've skied and found most rewarding. For instance, a few weeks ago I skied the descent gully off the top of Chair Peak. It was an incredible little line, just wide enough to allow turns at its narrowest, and fairly steep. I reported it on cascadeclimbers.com, and one member of a climbing party of three took skis and did it himself two days later. I thought that was great. I will continue to publish such endeavours, in hopes of further stimulating such activity. I don't think I'll ever need to fight for first tracks off the top of Chair Peak.<br><br>To sum it up, this sounds like a silly game of cops and robbers to me. Well, everyone have fun playing cops and robbers... I won't care because I'll play CEO. (Robber baron with cops in pocket/Finder of ultimate stashes who reports all)<br><br>Excuse the analogies, they're poor but fun. Also feel free to flame me, I can take it. In fact, I enjoy it. Somebody dog me quick!

Flame sky, or read journal articles? hard choice...<br><br>Actually, as many of you may not yet know, Mr. Kilo is a contract employee for Riley and Meadows North LLC, the Portland-based owner of the infamous Mt. Hood Meadows Ski Resort. <br><br>Mr. Kilo was recruited, following the successful hostile takeover of Cooper Spur, by their elite Secret Enhancement of Revenue and Upgrade for Meadows (SERUM) division. While knowledge of the ultimate goals of this highly mobile and elusive division remain tightly defended by internal controls, unnamed sources from inside the organization say that eventually the entire West Coast will be systematically appraised and exploited.<br><br>Perhaps the only thing that the backcountry public can do to stop the construction of new developments such as The Meadows Chair (tm) and Mt. St. Meadows (tm) is to assemble protest bivies as a human shield to block the inevitably approaching scourge of heavy vehicles.

I don't plan to be a cop, but I don't plan to write a guidebook either. Most of the places I ski aren't big cool lines that I want to report on as some sort of "first." I'm in a league of mere mortals that doesn't do quite the BIG projects Sky and his pals are up for, so I have a little more potential company. <br><br>In any case perhaps there's an element of selfishness in only posting general conditions info rather than a clear pointer to the routes (my personal rule is around non-guidebook discoveries that aren't currently overrun, that are easy to access, and that are pretty damn near Seattle). My goal is to allow randomness to spread out impact in easy-access areas, and yes, to avoid an internet-induced circus as has happened on a few key easily-accessed routes lately. But I don't ever expect solitude, though I'm happy when I find it nearby. The N Cascades Highway is another story, but I don't think I90 is under any threat of closing down due to lack of use, nor are the sno-parks I use regularly up that way.<br><br>I feel OK about my postings, in fact much better than simply lurking here (hear that, all you especially selfish lurkers!?). It would certainly be selfish to somehow obstruct others from enjoying the same discovery I've had. Or refusing to let folks know that Snowcrummie Pass is quite often Snowquality ("hell, let 'em all think you have to travel to Paradise..."). But what about not actively publicizing a specific route? On balance I don't think that's particularly selfish. From what I read on this thread, some folks, like photomatt find such behavior downright benevolent. But I'm sure others will feel my rule violates their own sense of duty to the community. Oh well. My rule is for me only. Make your own for you!

To sum it up, this sounds like a silly game of cops and robbers to me.

<br><br>In an earlier post, I said I don't mind publishing trip reports for destinations that are either already well known or challenging enough that they won't get overcrowded.  The trips you're describing fall into the latter category.  So, in my view, the fact that you're eager to publicize everything you do adds little to this discussion.<br><br>This discussion is about the "middle trips" that are neither way out there nor well known already.  They are accessible, but for some reason little known.  In my experience (and apparently the experience of a few others who've posted here) discovering such tours on one's own is enjoyable and rewarding.  The question is whether there is any value in exercising restraint to preserve these opportunities a while longer.<br><br>You're entitled to consider this a "silly game." I suggest, however, that you don't understand where the other people in this discussion are coming from and don't seem to want to understand.<br>