Secret stashes, exploration, solitude, and more

I publish trip reports for destinations that are either already well known or challenging enough that they won't get overcrowded.  I refrain from publishing reports for high quality areas that are easily accessible but for some reason little known.  I regard them as personal discovery zones, not just for me but for everybody.  Does silence make me ungracious?<br><br>I've never had my day ruined by meeting another skier in the mountains, even when we met in one of my "secret" spots.  Instead, I've met new friends this way.  And I've never criticized anyone in public for posting a trip report.  I once corresponded in private with another skier about the wisdom of publicizing a certain spot he discovered and posted.  We ended up friends and have since done trips together.<br><br>If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it all got started because ski_photomatt asked for trip ideas, but added: "I'm not asking for anyone's secret stash as I know these things are carefully guarded." In my view, Matt's request was most gracious. Things went downhill when freshie (apparently) criticized another skier for posting a certain trip report.  That was not gracious.<br><br>There's a difference between refraining from posting a report for your own reasons and criticizing somebody else in public for posting a report.  The former is self-restraint; the latter is coersion.  The former does not threaten our community spirit; the latter does.

This is a great topic. I mostly choose not to post my trips. <br><br>Like many out there - my time to free-ski is usually limited and as a result I often ski in areas that have quick and easy access. Given a choice I would rather ski the "stashes" I have stumbled upon in solitude and without tracks. If I meet up with others out there it certainly doesn't ruin my day and has often resulted in meeting future ski partners - great!<br><br>Some destinations - namely narrow couloirs - are most definitely "compromised" if they are tracked out. Its kind of a bummer if you've been skinning up to that great chute you've been eyeing only to realize that someone has beat you to it and you're left skiing leftovers much like can be found at the ski area. Other places can absorb lots of folks without affecting the quality of turns to be had. <br><br>I have to admit I am a bit of a hypocrite - I enjoy reading others posts and trip reports and comparing their experiences with mine but at the same time I don't often contribute for others benefit. Sorry. I am sure I am not alone in this regard.<br><br>Interestingly, one of the skin tracks that Charles came across last Thursday below Silver Peak was probably left by me. I was there on Tuesday and had skiied a run east of Twin Lakes. A trip report describing snow quality and stream crossing details may have been useful?<br><br>Interesting point about snowmobiles tim_place - it would be a horror to lose any more terrain to the motor crowd. That would be a serious threat to all of our backcountry excursions.

Other than that one "downhill" part of this thread that Lowell referred to, I think that this has been a very useful thread if for no other reason than to get opinions out there. This might or might not modify others actions when they post, but at least many will think a little before they post.<br><br>Certainly no one is required to post detailed reports, so it seems perfectly proper to remain silent. This does seem to be a fairly gregarious group by its nature and proof by its very existence. I am sure that there are many BC skiers out there that simply choose not to participate in this site.<br><br>Also, while I can understand that some may become disappointed when someone else posts a route description of what they thought was a "secret stash", but then hasn't it already been thrown into the public domain at that point? <br><br>The hope for BC skiers is that even for the most traveled route, one decent snowfall and a little luck and you could possibly be the only person on the route for the whole day as if you were the only one in the world. Think of what happens within the rock climbing arena when some free routes get bolted! Other routes just by the nature of heavy use and cleaning are marred forever.

<br>If you go back to the beginning of this thread, it all got started because ski_photomatt asked for trip ideas, but added: "I'm not asking for anyone's secret stash as I know these things are carefully guarded." In my view, Matt's request was most gracious. Things went downhill when freshie (apparently) criticized another skier for posting a certain trip report.  That was not gracious.<br><br>There's a difference between refraining from posting a report for your own reasons and criticizing somebody else in public for posting a report.  The former is self-restraint; the latter is coersion.  The former does not threaten our community spirit; the latter does.

<br><br>Always a pleasure to read your comments, Lowell.<br><br>However, I am sure you are not suggesting that just by expressing my opinion I was being less than gracious, this is a forum for discussion after all. I was nothing but pleasant ("cute and clever" as Gregg_C put it) so perhaps you mean something I am missing.<br><br>This thread has hardly gone downhill either. Instead it has turned into a fine discussion of issues we all care about, and to me has provided much better reading than the usual endless chain of posts about "Paradise was windblown last weekend" or "why does snow stick to my binding" chatter that this board often presents.<br><br>Also, if you look up the definition (and spelling) of coercion you will find that posting "criticism" in an Internet chat room is not coercion, I am not going to coerce anyone into doing anything. Coercion involves force, and I have none of that here. And anyway, if a community's spirit were to be threatened by criticism then it is on the downslope to insignificance in my book. A community's spirit should be strengthened by criticism, at least one I want to be a part of. I am guessing no one thinks the Washington BC skiing crowd's spirit is threatened. Instead this thread has given many people a chance to weigh in on the topics that affect us all, and by getting to see other members opinions each of us will (hopefully) be more conscious about the effects of their words each time they post.<br><br>That said I agree I may have stepped on a few toes with my original post but I stand by my opinion: There is no effective difference between including explicit route descriptions in an Internet TR for a "secret" place and including vague-yet-easily-decipherable route descriptions for the same place. In the end the result is the same: everyone quickly knows where the tour is. When any motivated powder-lover with 2 minutes and a web browser can figure it out (which describes about 99% of the readership of this group) then you have to have your head in the sand to believe you have not completely disseminated your (and the people you share it with) tour. I am glad to see that my small point (on the spectrum of the secret stash discussion) has been mostly lost in this thread, since it means everyone has ended up talking about the big picture.<br><br>See you on the slopes!<br><br>

This thread has hardly gone downhill either. Instead it has turned into a fine discussion of issues we all care about...

<br><br>Thanks freshie.  I agree with pretty much everything you said.  You're right that I missed the mark on some of my comments.  This thread is interesting precisely because it has generated some controversy.<br><br>In my experience, nearly every avid backcountry skier has some places they're happy to talk about and other places they are more reserved about.  It's like anglers and their fishing holes, I suppose.  The people I've known who dismiss this issue entirely typically have some other agenda, like being a guide, a publisher, or an aspiring writer.<br><br>Controversy arises because we don't all agree on which places should be left to individual discovery.  After all, if you're reluctant to talk about these places, it's pretty hard to come to any agreement!<br><br>As for myself, I keep in the back of my mind The Guidebook I Hope Will Never Be Written.  That would be a guidebook to backcountry skiing along the North Cascades Highway.  For me, this is a perfect zone for personal discovery.  By mentioning it, I could be waving a flag in front of some aspiring author or guide.  Or, I might raise awareness that here is a Discovery Zone worth keeping that way.<br>

Lowell, You make good points, as usual. But there is always a 'but' ...<br><br>Well after the guide book of backcounty skiing along the NC highway is written, this will still be a perfect zone for personal growth. Unless done by an encyclopediest like Beckey, I suspect it will include mostly the places that are already well known. It is a big country out there.<br><br>I can forsee some possible consequences of this guidebook from Hell:<br><br>1) The war horses will be more crowded. You might run across two parties on Sahale on an April weekend, instead of one. You will have to be really early to get first tracks on centeral stripe of the Birthday tour or Silver Star. The edges and alternatives will still be good.<br><br>2) Folk who have agenda other than personal growth will be able to find slopes suitable to their needs, rather than wasting time on dead ends or getting in over their heads. The N Cascades are big enough for pioneers and non-pioneer recreationists.<br><br>3) Maybe, with a constituency, the N Cascade highway will no longer gated at Ross Dam. Currently the highway is usually cleared to Washington Pass early in March, but the gate is kept closed until the avi chutes on the E. side of the Early Winter Spires release and the Highway Dept. can open the highway. For a month you could drive to Easy Pass, Porcupine Creek, Heather pass, Cutthroat and all these other delicious skiing trailheads if only the gate was open. Ask the Dept of Highways why they do not open the road to local traffic earlier and they will tell you, 'that area lacks a constituency'. <br><br>These access issues always involve trade-offs, to be sure. It is not obvious that publicizing the goods will result in only negative consequences.