Secret stashes, exploration, solitude, and more

Guys, guys. In the words of Oscar Wilde, "life is too important to be taken seriously". Even when it comes to "secret" stashes.

Yeah, but pontificating is so much fun!

Yeah, but pontificating is so much fun!

<br><br>Apparently!

Nice discussion.<br><br>I do very much appreciate seeing trip reports with or without route descriptions. I do like to know the general area or destination and then get the maps out to work a route in my mind. Chances are I would pick a different route for many such trips.<br><br>Last year (during my time of unemployment) I was able to do many trips unaccompanied into areas both in the guidebooks and "secret". Never saw another person, what a great sense to explore as a pioneer. (at least once the highway noise is left behind Lowell's points are well taken here. I won't have that luxury this year, but I am pretty confident that if I want to find a place that is not trampled, it won't be that hard.<br><br>One point to consider. If every route done was posted and given the number of people willing to really work at this endeavor, just how full would the backcountry be? My guess is that 80% of the "BC" crowd would still end up at the popular spots with the rest scattered about several square million acres. Heck,is it not obvioius that the majority of "tele skiers" do nothing but lift service?<br><br>I do like skiing solo for that private personal experience, yet I don't hold the opinion that a group of 4 can't have a very similar experience. Being such a small community, odds are that bumping into one other small group on a route will likely find youself skiing with like minds and probably names familiar from communications such as occurs on this site (I have seen such contacts referred to countless times in the trip reports).<br><br>It is also hard to imagine that any "secret stash" has not been previously discovered considering the long history of exploration and very high population density for a relatively small mountainous region. My guess is that those areas will remain relatively untrod unless hyper advertized or published.<br><br>Alan

While I generally agree with AlpineRose that, in the Big Picture, this is a small issue, it seems apparent that in our modern society this is not a trivial matter. With people more and more concentrated in urban areas and out of touch with wild Nature, the sense of discovery and solitude which one can get in the mountains has become quite important to many. The number of contributors to this thread illustrates this, as do the continuing struggles of our National Parks and Forests to maintain mandated levels of "solitude".<br><br>I have had the opportunity to think about this discussion during my last two ski outings, which have provided some surprising contrasts. About a week ago I skied in the Baker backcountry, in a spot ridiculously close to the parking lot. Except for the first ~30 minutes of skinning in (when we were following several skiers) and then the last ~30 minutes (saw two skiers at a distance), we didn't see any other people, aside from the seven in our own party. It was nice to have our little spot to ourselves, and it was nice to not have anyone else tracking up the slopes, but the presence of others would probably not have ruined the experience. It was a great day, both for the skiing and the enjoyable companionship of the others in the party, with a surprising amount of solitude given the location.<br><br>Two days ago I tried a route new to me (Silver Peak via Twin Lakes), which I had found by studying maps, and was expecting to see neither people (it was a weekday and I was alone) nor tracks. Much to my surprise, there were tracks (several days old) for a good deal of the route I had chosen. I could have varied my route slightly and skinned up untracked snow, but rather than a blemish on my wilderness experience, I saw the tracks as an opportunity both to save energy on the climb and see what destinations others have found in the area. Following the skin track up through the forest, I realized that the presence of the tracks didn't reduce my routefinding challenges, because I had no way of knowing where the tracks would lead. I had to consult my map just as often as if there had been no tracks, and as it turned out, the tracks diverged along the way and left me with untracked snow for the last 1000' of climbing. Even though thousands of people have probably stood on top of Silver Peak, some taking the route I used, I felt plenty adventurous and alone (maybe a little too, at one point).<br><br>Given the history of the exploration of the Cascades, is it likely there is any spot which nobody has ever visited by some means, especially up higher where skiers typically go? It seems like the "pioneering" type of experience which ski_photomatt and BigSnow mention is almost always going to be an illusion, though a valuable one to many, including myself. There are ways to increase the chances of such an experience (weekdays, stashes, going for a tour instead of turns, etc), but if it doesn't always turn out that way, I'm certainly not going to let it ruin my day. Another day, another location will give me that experience.<br><br>Similarly, encountering other skiers is almost always a positive experience, as alpentalcorey points out. In fact, until Matthaeus told me about his group's recent unpleasant encounter with another group of skiers high atop a newly (guidebook) popularized destination, I don't think I had ever experienced or heard about a truly bad encounter.<br><br>(Note: the original title of this thread no longer reflects what is being discussed here, so I changed it)<br>

Wow! I must admit that this thread surprises me. I thought all this kidding about secret stashes was just that. I feel like the relic of some bygone age when Mountaineers walked the mountains and the frenzied denizens of the flats had not yet elbowed their way into the throne room. <br> <br>When I began climbing, it was with great pleasure that I could follow the Beckey route descriptions to safely climb routes that I could not pioneer. Later, when I did put up some modest new routes, it was my pleasure to share what I had learned with the mountaineering community by publishing route descriptions. This seemed in resonance with the pioneering spirit of Western Civilization, where folks revealed what they had found for the good of all, and thus could Newton stand on the shoulders of his predecessors to see farther than they had been able. I failed realize that Beckey and I were doing something terrible! <br> <br>When I found ropes and hardware too heavy to enjoy and started skiing the backcountry for turns, the same spirit seemed appropriate. Anybody reading my trip reports can easily find my secret stashes. I hope I have been able to contribute to the pleasures of folks who come to the Baker backcountry without a clue as to where to find the goods. Similarly, when I travel to new areas, I appreciate any information that saves me floundering around for a few days getting the lay of the land. If I truly want a pioneering experience, I will go where no TRs have yet been made because nobody has yet been there. Ours is a large mountain range, and there are very, very few people beyond the easily accessible parking areas. <br> <br>Last weekend, in the Baker backcountry, I spent two days doing lines that I am sure are the secret stashes of somebody. I saw no tracks other than those of my party, after 30 minutes from the parking lot. If I went back to these lines now, they would be as pristine as when I found them. The Baker backcountry provides about 17,000 acres of prime skiing within reach of a day trip from the parking lots, and the lines are renewed weekly. I find it ludicrous that anyone&#8217;s day could be ruined by a follow bc skier skiing the line that they were aiming at. Just pick the next line if yours has been done &#8211; or, better yet, ski the line anyway and compare notes with your new friend at the bottom. <br> <br>Well, ludicrous or not, I suppose it can happen. Neither overpopulation nor the bc skiing boom are going away, and, apparently, bc overcrowding is already a reality in some areas. If so, what we need to protect against is not people skiing certain little patches we think are ours, but the popularity of backcountry skiing in general. If there are ten thousand bc skiers in your area, they will find your stashes no matter how cute and vague your trip reports. Perhaps, if it our intentions to keep folks out of our secret stashes, we need to stop glorifying backcountry skiing, stop making trip reports, close down TAY, Ttips and Alpenglow, and burn the guidebooks!! <br> <br>--- or maybe we need to accept the reality that we are enjoying the tattered remnants of a disappearing wilderness and at least be can be gracious as we participate in its destruction. It is even possible that, by creating muscle powered traffic to our favorite places, we may help protect them from becoming snowmobile territory. Now, there is how a stash gets really lost! <br> <br>