Secret stashes, exploration, solitude, and more

Snoslut's protocol of a physical visit required is great, it is essentially what I practice as well. My point in stirring the nest here is to help posters on this board understand that information spreads exponentially faster on the Internet than by word-of-mouth. If everyone just shares with their friends, then we will all meet no one but friends out in the snow. And that is a good thing.<br><br>That said, I've made some edits to my original post.<br><br>

Just wanted to make known that Ron Jarvis original wrote this message to me regarding a stash he and his friends discovered in the Tatoosh.  Can't wait to hit it up with ya in May Ron.<br><br>On a side note...if over crowding does indeed become a factor (which I can't see happening in the near future cause of the effort involved in getting to some of these places) we can always rename our favorite runs, peaks, bowls, etc.  The whole point is to have fun.

A little story about secrets from the Upper Pennisula of Michigan...<br><br>Once upon a time there was a bump near the tip of an isolated pennisula that stuck far out into the chilly waters of Lake Superior. This bump was neglected by the logging company who owned it because it was too steep and cliffy to log, plus it was covered with a particularly difficult tree - the ironwood - a chainsaw's worst nightmare. Before the pre-modern epoch (the nineties), a hearty, and smelly few would climb this 1600' bump and slide down on skinny tele set-ups and 80's vintage alpine gear in the incredible powder of the area - a gift from Gitchee Gumee (the Algonquin word for "all powerful lake" - Lake Superior). For a while they were the only ones who visited the area (save for the occasional high-marker) and things were good. <br><br>During the mid-ninties the aging, smelly few noticed that they had to get up a bit earlier in the morning to beat a dedicated group of youngsters who would track-up the bump on powder mornings. This disturbed them, but still things were good. Little did the youngsters know, but the older guys had been skiing the bump for a long, long time. The youngsters were adventurous, energetic, and fun-loving - just like the older guys used to be. The older guys didn't know how the secret got out, but they figured the rigors of skiing the bump would keep down the number of new-comers. Eventually, the old guys became bitter and upset with the youngsters because the youngsters didn't seem to care that the old guys had done soooo much to maintain the, uhhh, ski-ability of the bumps wonderful terrain. That unfortuantely was not the case - the youngsters didn't even know that the older guys had been taking care of the bump for so long. As more and more youngsters started showing up to ski the bump, one of the older guys decided that the bump was ruined - he thought the bump was now "discovered" and too many people were skiing it. The youngsters thought it was still ok, just a bit more competative. <br><br>One day, in town, a very rich and powerful man's son was visiting the remote area on business unrelated to skiing. The old guy who had become angry with the situation on the bump ran into the rich man's son and thought it would be a good idea to tell him about the bump, and the possibillity that the bump could be turned into a private ski area. To him, it was already ruined due to excessive traffic, so why not develop the area according to "his" direction. The rich man's son was sold on the idea and gave the bitter old guy a job - to make the bump into a profitable ski hill.<br><br>The youngsters were outraged, the logging company had a lease drawn up before you could say "sisu", the orders were placed for used lifts from somewhere in Wisconsin, and the smoke from the slashing and burning filled the area around the bump the next summer. Now, due to liability issues, no one skis the bump unless they are sporting a 44 dollar lift ticket purchased from the rich man's son...<br><br>THE END

I had no idea this was related to one of my previous posts. Freshie, with all respect I don't believe that your original post was written in the interest in informing us of the workings of the internet. You were being clever and cute and disrespecting the tone of my TR. If you wanted to inform us of your opinion regarding information on TAY why not make a general statement on random tracks? Your post heads into the same ethically murky ground as the dude that planted knives on the planes to expose weaknesses in airport security. You made your point but it was done in a disrespectful manner. <br>I am first an enthusiast of backcountry skiing. You will notice with all my posts a tone of deep satisfaction with skiing in the mountains. I also try and pass on useful, descriptive information so that others can enjoy the tours that I have completed. On two occasions I have been vague for easily understandable reasons. I am confused as to your motivation when it was so obvious what my reasoning was. <br>Also, you are a bit reckless with your statements. You make claims and assumptions that are plain wrong. I never edited my second post as you stated and Larry sat beside me at his kitchen counter when I hastily wrote my original TR between mouthfulls of breakfast. As far as I recal, he made no mention of me disrespecting him. You make statements about respect when the bottom line is you displayed a lack of respect in your post. No amount of semantic gymnastics with the facts will take that away. (And thanks for editing your post. You were wrong and needed to change it).<br>I will be in Mazama next week. We would like to invite you on a 20 mile sled trip into a secret stash. Since your good at reading between the lines you will notice there is no mention of a return trip out to the plowed highway.<br>just kidding.......<br><br>Gregg

Thank-you Gregg, no one has ever called cute and clever before. Sniff. <br><br>Just so my motivations are clear, I'll post one last time. My intention was to provoke a little discussion about stashes and posting about them on this board, in this I was successful. I think it is foolish for anyone to believe that a "vague" TR with as much detail as Gregg's had is effectively any different than just handing out marked-up topos to everyone who walks into the ski department at REI. You are potentially telling hundreds of people where your stash is, and you shouldn't believe otherwise.<br><br>My motivation is simple: to preserve stashes. Yours, your friends, mine, my friends, everyones. To do this, I encourage people to either not post about their stashes at all (most people already do this) or to make "vague" posts truly impossible to figure out. But of course it is up to you. I enjoy any post that talks passionately about skiing, I just prefer they don't have directions to my hidden stash in them.<br><br>

Gads! I'll offer a dissenting view.<br><br>Charles, I really appreciate this site, especially when I learn of new routes from you. The Hanging Valley tour and the Arrowhead tour, with pictures, are fascinating. I go on a number of tours every year, nearly always someplace different each time, and I'll probably never even get to those obscure tours you've documented. Yet, it is still very gratifying and intriguing to ponder your reports and pictures. I hope that someday when I get my act together to take pictures, folks will find the same gratification in my descriptions of obscure routes.<br><br>Finally, to quote Klindt Vielbig in his Cross-Country Ski Routes:<br><br>A significant effort has been made to describe ski areas in such a way as to disperse the growing number of skiers, to offer loops and alternative routes so that there is less human impact on everyone's personal experience.<br><br>Anyone such as Charles who has made efforts in this direction, I applaud.