TR Replies
In regard to the snowmobile and skier designated-use areas:
It seems to me that more signage may be helpful, and more hint of enforcement. I see a few tracks from snowmobiles violating (by over a mile) the designated skiing areas in my favorite touring area. I also know of an area where snowmobilers climb up to 7000' regularly (for maybe the past 15 + years) in the Wilderness to drop off skiers on a yo-yo circuit. I would like to see a little more emphasis on enforcement. Some sn...
It seems to me that more signage may be helpful, and more hint of enforcement. I see a few tracks from snowmobiles violating (by over a mile) the designated skiing areas in my favorite touring area. I also know of an area where snowmobilers climb up to 7000' regularly (for maybe the past 15 + years) in the Wilderness to drop off skiers on a yo-yo circuit. I would like to see a little more emphasis on enforcement. Some sn...
Technically speaking, this was a glide crack (as the slope is not a glacier), but as it was on the top of the snow pack, I thought the term "Bergschrund" was more descriptive.
Where is not important. I hope you enjoyed the adventure as I did, nontheless!
Where is not important. I hope you enjoyed the adventure as I did, nontheless!
author=JW link=topic=4529.msg19289#msg19289 date=1145369821">
.Here's Ron Busting it off
Great video-
Should have gotten a picture of Ron's shorts after the big release....
Looking forward to getting out with you soon!
Joe
Gary Peniston and I sawed through a cornice at Chinook pass(NAches peak false summitt )with a 30 ' knotted cordelette. We jumped and jumped and the damn thing never did drop! we left feeling guilty as hell. I also fell through one onetime and landed in front of my ski partners. As you can tell I'm still trying to figure them out.
Where? Other than Stuart, Daniel, Hinman, what other glaciiated ps are there in the central cascades? Which did you carve?
Main thing: I'm glad no one got burried last wk-end.
Wow! What a discussion!
My2Cents on snowmachines, what skiers and sled-heads should know-
The tracks from a sled, esp on groomed, when frozen, can litteraly be *deadly* for skinny skiers. When not frozen, the sled tracks are mearly dangerous and akward as hell.
Of the 120 snow-parks, 40 are for non-motorized use.
The state grooms 10 to 100 times the number of miles for snowmachines vs skii...
Wow! What a discussion!
My2Cents on snowmachines, what skiers and sled-heads should know-
The tracks from a sled, esp on groomed, when frozen, can litteraly be *deadly* for skinny skiers. When not frozen, the sled tracks are mearly dangerous and akward as hell.
Of the 120 snow-parks, 40 are for non-motorized use.
The state grooms 10 to 100 times the number of miles for snowmachines vs skii...
In response to khyak's comment that "I think it makes sense to have a few areas for non-motorized travel", Bandit wrote:
"How about MRNP? Is 241,992 acres enough non-motorized area for you? How about The Olympic National Park? How about The North Cascades National Park? How much land do you need to XC ski?"
Perhaps I might make a comment or two. I would like to take these questions at face value in part because the views implied by the questions ref...
"How about MRNP? Is 241,992 acres enough non-motorized area for you? How about The Olympic National Park? How about The North Cascades National Park? How much land do you need to XC ski?"
Perhaps I might make a comment or two. I would like to take these questions at face value in part because the views implied by the questions ref...
Nice! I keep joking/fantasizing with PeterC about "good" ways to release cornices. We usually start with discussions of snow saws, but eventually end up talking about how we can get our hands on avy control explosives! :) Maybe we'll try the belayed-jump-up-and-down method sometime - there are a couple lines I'd like to do if I knew the cornices above them weren't going to release. Usually we use the "steer VERY clear" approach...
Nice photos.
I'll let you know if I head out that way.
I'll let you know if I head out that way.
author=Randy link=topic=4511.msg19281#msg19281 date=1145331945]
How many acres do the snow machines need? 100% it seems There a very few areas left that are "machine free" -- but sledders can't seem to leave the few remaining scraps alone.
FYI: Snow machines are permitted on a number snow covered roads in Mt Rainer NP -- I believe Phil Fortier post a TR about using a snow machine to approach Glacier Basin during February a c...
I was also thinking about posting a TR and was stoked when I came across this thread. As some people down the valley were searching for Easter eggs I was out searching for late season pow. I'd been watching storms come through Mission Ridge all week and knew I had to get up for some turns.
Thinking I was ahead of the pack, I rolled into the parking lot at 8 and found 4 other cars. It only took a minute to throw the pack together and crank up the mp3 player and I was off. Starting...
Thinking I was ahead of the pack, I rolled into the parking lot at 8 and found 4 other cars. It only took a minute to throw the pack together and crank up the mp3 player and I was off. Starting...
A number of related topics have been discussed here. Not everyone is in agreement on everything, which is not surprising, and despite this, the discussion has remained mostly civil. Let's keep it that way.
The original issues that came up in this thread were whether it is (1) legal, and (2) acceptable, to use a snowmobile on the Cold Creek road where the winter-groomed XC trail runs. The issue of snow machines using traditional or designated non-motorized areas has come up severa...
The original issues that came up in this thread were whether it is (1) legal, and (2) acceptable, to use a snowmobile on the Cold Creek road where the winter-groomed XC trail runs. The issue of snow machines using traditional or designated non-motorized areas has come up severa...
author=Bandit link=topic=4511.msg19245#msg19245 date=1145265657]
How about MRNP? Is 241,992 acres enough non-motorized area for you? How about The Olympic National Park? How about The North Cascades National Park? How much land do you need to XC ski?
How many acres do the snow machines need? 100% it seems There a very few areas left that are "machine free" -- but sledders can't seem to leave the few remaining scra...
Hi korup. Good to meet you, too. The snow was good for some fine turns on a great April day. After Charles' post on Rampart Ridge, I kept looking across the valley and wondering...perhaps another time.
author=Larry_R link=topic=4511.msg19247#msg19247 date=1145277789]
Mr. Bandit,
Perhaps it might help in understanding your position on these matters if you might be willing to fill us in a little on whether or not you ride snowmobiles as part of your skiing, or other. If you do, what sort of activity do you undertake? Would it be important for you to be able to ride on the XC trails mentioned in this post in the spring? Would it be your position tha...
author=Bandit link=topic=4511.msg19225#msg19225 date=1145213392]
I like the idea of accessiing terrain by snowmobile. As long as the driver is responsible , it shouldn't be a problem.
I like the idea too. Just as long as the operator keeps the machine where it belongs - on low elevation logging roads and well a way from where I'm skiing, or ever intend to ski.
Is skinny skiing on ungroomed/packed trails at Snoq Pass elevations even worthwhile this late in the season? It seems like skinny skis would be digging big gooopy trenches. I'm no skinny skier, but even skiing on 95mm waist teles the other day was a challenge.
author=Bandit link=topic=4511.msg19245#msg19245 date=1145265657]
How about MRNP? Is 241,992 acres enough non-motorized area for you? How about The Olympic National Park? How about The North Cascades National Park? How much land do you need to XC ski?
Mr. Bandit,
Perhaps it might help in understanding your position on these matters if you might be willing to fill us in a little on whether or not you ride snowmobiles as...
author=khyak link=topic=4511.msg19239#msg19239 date=1145251039]
Thanks John for all the good writing. I live up at Hyak and enjoy ski touring Silver. Unfortunately, at this time of year, some of my neigbors seem to think it is okay to destroy the cross country trails and high mark the heck out of silver basin. Unfortunately it only takes one group of snowmobilers to destroy the surface of the cross country trail. Even though the ski area has stopped groomi...
Thanks John for all the good writing. I live up at Hyak and enjoy ski touring Silver. Unfortunately, at this time of year, some of my neigbors seem to think it is okay to destroy the cross country trails and high mark the heck out of silver basin. Unfortunately it only takes one group of snowmobilers to destroy the surface of the cross country trail. Even though the ski area has stopped grooming, the trails would normally stay very usable for the cross country set, but fo...
I agree with the majority of folks on this board that sno-mo's should not be up in the silver basin or over the line in the teanaway. I have carried out alot of trash in the past from bilers in the lake ingalls area. I do have to admit that the sno-mo windshield I found made for good glissading. There are areas where the trash and noise should not be allowed...there are plenty of other places to visit. It seems as if the issue is that there is really no way to regulate this type of activity...
I just registered and am hoping to comment since I am the snomobile owner.
I appreciate the comment and agree. We could have skied Mt Margaret and been where Snomobiles are appropriate. We could have gotten just as wet and miserable.
Machines are going places not suitable for them and have witnessed the evidence near Ingals Peak where they enter the ALW. I write letters about it , to the appropriate land man...
I appreciate the comment and agree. We could have skied Mt Margaret and been where Snomobiles are appropriate. We could have gotten just as wet and miserable.
Machines are going places not suitable for them and have witnessed the evidence near Ingals Peak where they enter the ALW. I write letters about it , to the appropriate land man...
I wish I was in the kind of shape some of those skinny-ski skinny guys and girls are, even if I might not choose their outfit! Personally I've got a lot of respect for the aerobic/competitive sides of XC and enjoy joining these folks out on the trail. My 2c are that Cold Creek/Silver Peak should not see snow machine traffic except for rescue and safety work.
author=John_Morrow link=topic=4511.msg19226#msg19226 date=1145215314]
Bandit,
Please take a moment to closely read my words. It is not an all or nothing proposition. I get along with snowmobile assisted skiers, many are friends. This is about where and why.
Please do not simplify the argument. There are areas appropriate for each use. Quiet winter recreation seekers have a right to have some (not all) areas dedicated to such pursuit. I...
Charles, thank you for the succinct discussion regarding the law. I discussed this very thing with Todd Stiles, winter rec coordinator for the Cle Elum District. He referred to the new Special Uses Coord. on the MBSNF who administers the Summit Nordic Center permit. This person is replacing retiring Larry Donovan. At this point it is not known for certain if the Legal Closure extends beyond the operating season of the Nordic Center. Hence, this is why my above thoughts were of a courtesy na...
I think it is easier for everyone to get along when all groups are following the rules or laws. I looked into the question of snowmobiles on Cold Creek Road and in Silver Peak basin a few years ago, and got a definite answer that snowmobles are prohibited at all times during the operating season of the XC trails. I believe that this might extend past the operating season of the lifts, but I'm not absolutely sure about that.
Perhaps jhamaker and partners checked into this and foun...
Perhaps jhamaker and partners checked into this and foun...
Bandit,
Please take a moment to closely read my words. It is not an all or nothing proposition. I get along with snowmobile assisted skiers, many are friends. This is about where and why.
Please do not simplify the argument. There are areas appropriate for each use. Quiet winter recreation seekers have a right to have some (not all) areas dedicated to such pursuit. I intentially mentioned large acreages that are historically snowmobile assist in my post,to remain accessab...
Please take a moment to closely read my words. It is not an all or nothing proposition. I get along with snowmobile assisted skiers, many are friends. This is about where and why.
Please do not simplify the argument. There are areas appropriate for each use. Quiet winter recreation seekers have a right to have some (not all) areas dedicated to such pursuit. I intentially mentioned large acreages that are historically snowmobile assist in my post,to remain accessab...
author=John_Morrow link=topic=4511.msg19221#msg19221 date=1145202918]
Thanks for the info. Guess I will go hiking out east instead.
I would like to open a civil discussion about your snowmobile, though. In general I believe the snowmobile assist community has a responsibility to carefully choose destinations before you go. Cold Creek is an area that it simply is inappropriate.
Some reasons:
The Nordic Center has now reduced days of operation...
author=John_Morrow link=topic=4511.msg19221#msg19221 date=1145202918]
When then does the snow season end and Spring hiking, mountaineering, and backcountry skiing begin? For that window of time when the roads are melted out it is now common to be doing a hike for a mile or two, transitioning to ski or scrambling on the snow, and have highmarkers come whizzing past you in the upper basins, entering from over snow access higher upvalley. This was not the inte...
There was some awsome floating to be had around mazama yesterday! Our group felt good about the snowpack, a lot changed overnight im sure...but if the season ended yesterday i would feel pretty good about the year!! ;)
Thanks for the info. Guess I will go hiking out east instead.
I would like to open a civil discussion about your snowmobile, though. In general I believe the snowmobile assist community has a responsibility to carefully choose destinations before you go. Cold Creek is an area that it simply is inappropriate.
Some reasons:
The Nordic Center has now reduced days of operation. It is illegal to operate a snowmobile, not just when they are open, but at all during they're enti...
I would like to open a civil discussion about your snowmobile, though. In general I believe the snowmobile assist community has a responsibility to carefully choose destinations before you go. Cold Creek is an area that it simply is inappropriate.
Some reasons:
The Nordic Center has now reduced days of operation. It is illegal to operate a snowmobile, not just when they are open, but at all during they're enti...
Rinaldo is a very great guy, grew up with Martin Volken near Zermatt. After the trip with you, he was in the Ortler. Gave us lots of great tips, even though we were self guided. He will visit Martin this June, maybe he can give a talk and slide show? Martin, are you lurking here? What do you say?
Sounds about the same as the report from last week - 5.2 miles according to my odometer, so it adds a couple easy miles road skiing up, good sliding/skating back down. Some 4 wheeler tracks make it another .25 mile, but not worth it since there is reasonable parking right at the start of the serious snow. Likely snowing there today though, so it might be even lower next week!
As much as I love this little mountain, I frequent it because of proximity (I work in Granite Falls), not ski...
As much as I love this little mountain, I frequent it because of proximity (I work in Granite Falls), not ski...
Greg, you bet we know speck! That was the ham, eggs, and potatos for $7 aka spiegel eier und speck. Forget weight loss on this trip.
Sorry Sean, didn't catch the needed reply til just yesterday. Traditional opening is for Memorial day weekend but as you've noted, the deeper snowpack makes it less certain. Even more of the factor is May weather - seems around Rainier and Chinook the snow can continue to build. With the highway basically mid-track any new snow keeps peeling off and they wind up clearing the same stretch many times to make any forward progress. Also just heard of a washout and rockslide not far...
I left the car around 3:30, hit the summit about 5:30, headed down just before 6 and got back to the car at 6:60 - all pretty steady motoring. The road skiing added 30 min. on the way up.
I often drop down the back side for some better turns later in the spring (when snow conditions (and weather!) are bettter/safer) which adds more time. Skiing the normal route isn't a great run for turns, more of a workout/scenery thing for me.
I often drop down the back side for some better turns later in the spring (when snow conditions (and weather!) are bettter/safer) which adds more time. Skiing the normal route isn't a great run for turns, more of a workout/scenery thing for me.
Silas - what's up with photos of your butt? First John Roper points me to one of your butt out near Chelan that's been published in a book, now this! If you're not acting your age, I hope you're at least skiing it!
Incredible pics ya got! I made that 1st one my new desktop background. How long did it take to reach the top? Is it a pretty straight forward descent? Any tricks involved? I've hiked it several times but never skied it.
I met Silas at the Branca Hut and then again at the Pizzini- small world out there. What an inspriation! That guy has some serious energy and sense of adventure.
the chalet is down a dirt road from the highway at the turnout at mile post 19. I think Thompson Pass is at mile post 27. The "trailhead" to Dimond is at about mile post 36. Matt Kinney has named many of the features in the area, and the names seem to have stuck with the locals. He has a backcountry skiing guide book to the area that was just published this year. The book is excellent, and so is the cover shot, for which I receive credits in the book. :) You can order it off his websit...
Thanks for the pictures - I recognize many terrain features from my summer trip out there! It looks like the chalet is on the Valdez side of the pass, just below treeline?
Where did you leave the road to ascend toward Dimond? - I am guessing from about 3 miles down the northeast side of Thompson Pass? Curious also where you got the names for all the locales - I was just using USGS maps and google satellite photos.
We had trekked across meadows from just south of the pass to...
Where did you leave the road to ascend toward Dimond? - I am guessing from about 3 miles down the northeast side of Thompson Pass? Curious also where you got the names for all the locales - I was just using USGS maps and google satellite photos.
We had trekked across meadows from just south of the pass to...
Yeah, I was worried that 11pm was a little late to start rounding up the usual suspects for a morning trip. But we couldn't pass up the customary Tully's stop. I sure hope I can get a few more days in up there, but it would appear that it's a little late in the season for dawn patrol. However, afternoon patrol might be just right for certain north facing objectives... ;)
Nice report - thanks for sharing. Good example of a report that benefits from pretty much all the photos. It made me want to go up and check that area out.
I can relate, a couple years ago, we did the Alternate start to the Haute route before getting whited out at Borg de Grand St. Bernard. Ended up missing some of the big uphill and the run under the Matterhorn. Of course once the train got us to Zermatt the weather broke and we had a nice tour (the alternate finish to the Haute Route) to Saas Fee. Once we got there, out of the Bluebird sky fell 80 CM of soft pow, so I guess Ullr was not too POed at us after all.
Did we do "The Haute Ro...
Did we do "The Haute Ro...
That's a sweet line.
Nice report.
Keep up the good work.
Nice report.
Keep up the good work.
author=Daniel link=topic=4487.msg19116#msg19116 date=1144787188]Guess I was still asleep at that hour, but you would've had to yell quite loud for me to hear that a few miles away at my apartment ;D
We stopped for coffee and a pastry at the Eastgate Tully's and yelled "Grande Cocoa!" but got no replies, only strange looks.
Glad you were able to get out for a dawn patrol, despite the firm/avy debris snow conditions;...
Curses! What a beautiful day to be stuck in the office! I think further dawn patrolling will be required once I'm not on-call.