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Here's What I Fear
- maximusj
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14 years 2 months ago #96605
by maximusj
Replied by maximusj on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
Interesting topic.
It is easy to say that you are going to go out and make informed (and conservative?) decisions. It is just as easy to assume that everything is good to go because you get to the top of the skin track and see that other people have skied a slope or because your partners have not expressed concern about that day's conditions.
Are you (all readers) familiar with Ian McCammon's work on heuristic traps? www.snowpit.com/articles/traps%20reprint.pdf
I think he nicely summarizes some of the "traps" that we have all fallen into at some point or another. When I worked in outdoor ed, my co-instructors and I constantly discussed decisions, because it was our job to (try to) not get other people injured. But, when I am out for recreation with friends, I have often been guilty of poor decision making due to poor communication or due to making assumptions about what my partners are thinking. Luckily, I have always gotten away with it.
So, to me it comes down to one thing:
Communication! It starts at the parking lot. Are you on the same page about the day's objectives? And, it continues throughout the day. How do you feel about the conditions? If you think that digging a pit is prudent, say so. If you do not feel entirely comfortable with skiing/riding a line, say so. How many times have you not expressed your thoughts on the avalanche danger because no one else has? I am guilty. Sometimes it seems like everyone else feels good about a situation because no one else has expressed any concerns. But, perhaps everyone in the group is feeling unsure but not speaking up because no one in has spoken about his or her concerns. It can be really hard to take the leadership role in this situation, because you feel like a fun killer. So, start the conversation early. Unless it is your very first time out, you have some experience that you can use to make good judgement, and every group member's opinions have merit.
Wishing everyone a safe and fun season. Go La Nina!
It is easy to say that you are going to go out and make informed (and conservative?) decisions. It is just as easy to assume that everything is good to go because you get to the top of the skin track and see that other people have skied a slope or because your partners have not expressed concern about that day's conditions.
Are you (all readers) familiar with Ian McCammon's work on heuristic traps? www.snowpit.com/articles/traps%20reprint.pdf
I think he nicely summarizes some of the "traps" that we have all fallen into at some point or another. When I worked in outdoor ed, my co-instructors and I constantly discussed decisions, because it was our job to (try to) not get other people injured. But, when I am out for recreation with friends, I have often been guilty of poor decision making due to poor communication or due to making assumptions about what my partners are thinking. Luckily, I have always gotten away with it.
So, to me it comes down to one thing:
Communication! It starts at the parking lot. Are you on the same page about the day's objectives? And, it continues throughout the day. How do you feel about the conditions? If you think that digging a pit is prudent, say so. If you do not feel entirely comfortable with skiing/riding a line, say so. How many times have you not expressed your thoughts on the avalanche danger because no one else has? I am guilty. Sometimes it seems like everyone else feels good about a situation because no one else has expressed any concerns. But, perhaps everyone in the group is feeling unsure but not speaking up because no one in has spoken about his or her concerns. It can be really hard to take the leadership role in this situation, because you feel like a fun killer. So, start the conversation early. Unless it is your very first time out, you have some experience that you can use to make good judgement, and every group member's opinions have merit.
Wishing everyone a safe and fun season. Go La Nina!
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- Charlie Hagedorn
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14 years 2 months ago - 14 years 2 months ago #96607
by Charlie Hagedorn
Replied by Charlie Hagedorn on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
I guess my outlook is a little darker. If we play outside long enough, one day it _will_ kill, or worse, maim us. That's how probability works. There's no silver bullet when it comes to risk.
I try to manage things to give a reasonable expectation of living a hundred years in the backcountry.
At avalanche gatherings like NSAS, I wonder who won't make it to the next one. One of my goals is not to be that guy. Even if we're all really good, and average two hundred years without a backcountry incident each, about one NSAS participant a year will get caught. None of us are immune.
For me, the freedom and beauty of the backcountry are worth it. Most of us will get killed or maimed by something else first. Almost always, a dozen more turns are just that; twelve more human expressions of raw joy, silliness, and grace of being alive.
To directly answer Ron's question: Now that I know what it's like to be broken in the backcountry, the question I ask before dropping in on a suspect pitch is, "Is this slope going to leave me crippled?" Also, if we're all going to die, why hurry it up?
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Days like the one below are worth living for.
I try to manage things to give a reasonable expectation of living a hundred years in the backcountry.
At avalanche gatherings like NSAS, I wonder who won't make it to the next one. One of my goals is not to be that guy. Even if we're all really good, and average two hundred years without a backcountry incident each, about one NSAS participant a year will get caught. None of us are immune.
For me, the freedom and beauty of the backcountry are worth it. Most of us will get killed or maimed by something else first. Almost always, a dozen more turns are just that; twelve more human expressions of raw joy, silliness, and grace of being alive.
To directly answer Ron's question: Now that I know what it's like to be broken in the backcountry, the question I ask before dropping in on a suspect pitch is, "Is this slope going to leave me crippled?" Also, if we're all going to die, why hurry it up?
Days like the one below are worth living for.
Last edit: 14 years 2 months ago by Charlie Hagedorn.
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- Scotsman
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14 years 2 months ago #96610
by Scotsman
Replied by Scotsman on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
This^^^^
Charlie and I rarely agree on things but on this I completely agree with his well written and thoughtful response.
One of the things I enjoy about backcountry skiing is the inherent risk involved .
The days I have been out and been overcautious( you know when you have been) are far less fulfilling that those days when I have been willing to take some risks and got away with it. That's definitely not a PC stance to take in the growing pantheon of armchair avy experts on BC skiing blogs.
Charlie and I rarely agree on things but on this I completely agree with his well written and thoughtful response.
One of the things I enjoy about backcountry skiing is the inherent risk involved .
The days I have been out and been overcautious( you know when you have been) are far less fulfilling that those days when I have been willing to take some risks and got away with it. That's definitely not a PC stance to take in the growing pantheon of armchair avy experts on BC skiing blogs.
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- burns-all-year
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14 years 2 months ago #96612
by burns-all-year
Replied by burns-all-year on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
One can certainly be undercautious (reckless?), but I'm not sure that one can be overcautious. How would you know if you were being overcautious?
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- MangyMarmot
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14 years 2 months ago #96614
by MangyMarmot
Replied by MangyMarmot on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
All of us have a different tolerance for risk, but I think most would agree that if your butt never leaves the couch for fear that something might happen to you if you go outside, you are over cautious.
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- Scotsman
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14 years 2 months ago #96615
by Scotsman
adj.
Excessively cautious; unduly careful.
We're arguing semantics to a degree but I think you can and I certainly know when I have been and come back and wished I'd risked it a bit more and skied the line I wanted to or wish I hadn't backed off .Kinda leaves you unfulfilled.
Replied by Scotsman on topic Re: Here's What I Fear
o·ver·cau·tious (vr-kôshs)One can certainly be undercautious (reckless?), but I'm not sure that one can be overcautious. How would you know if you were being overcautious?
adj.
Excessively cautious; unduly careful.
We're arguing semantics to a degree but I think you can and I certainly know when I have been and come back and wished I'd risked it a bit more and skied the line I wanted to or wish I hadn't backed off .Kinda leaves you unfulfilled.
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