Managing hazards when skiing

Adding a little to the well considered  protocols, habits and practices already mentioned:
a.  I usually try to climb and ski back the same route, unless the differing return ski descent route is close enough in aspect, elevation, temp., etc. to be judged of similar risk as the one just climbed.
b.  I think we need put special emphasis on our timing in the late winter-spring period when the slopes are still stabilizing, or have seen recent new snow and winds.  The European alpine start seems often limited to the volcano's.  It needs to be reconsidered.  Getting through zones long cooking on upper slopes and shoulders while we labor in the cold shadows is often the source of objective danger - and the only way to avoid it is to climb through in dark or early light, then wait above for the best ski descent time - freer from the objective hazards of cornice falls, avalanches or rockfall.  Serac's, those of course are another story - truly a crapshoot.
c.  Carrying our ice axe or arrest pole at the ready (let alone tucked in behind our shoulder), while skiing, implies we recognize the danger - which usually means we're already past some point that maybe we should have backed off from.  A fall on ice gives only milliseconds to effect your own arrest.  Worse, few of us regularly practice the skill.  I can't tell you how many ice axe arrest classes I've seen or participated in where at the snow was thawed and soft - giving the practioner no relevant practice.  As skiers and snowboarders, I'd say falling on ice is probably our biggest hazard after avalanches.

Good dialogue.  Thanks all.

Carrying our ice axe or arrest pole at the ready (let alone tucked in behind our shoulder), while skiing, implies we recognize the danger - which usually means we're already past some point that maybe we should have backed off from.  A fall on ice gives only milliseconds to effect your own arrest.  Worse, few of us regularly practice the skill.  I can't tell you how many ice axe arrest classes I've seen or participated in where at the snow was thawed and soft - giving the practioner no relevant practice.  As skiers and snowboarders, I'd say falling on ice is probably our biggest hazard after avalanches.

Over on the Watson Traverse thread I mentioned skiing with an ice axe slipped through your shoulder straps on terrain that could contain icy spots.

Obviously the safest thing to do is not to ski in places like that.

But some people may want to do that (like on Mt Baker's Park Headwall). My suggestion is not to ski icy slopes, but to have a backup in case your assessment of the slope's lack of iciness is wrong.

The purpose of having an ice axe handy is not for self arrest. If you need to self arrest wearing skis on an icy slope, you're probably a goner. The purpose is to provide a way to stop a fall from happening in the first place. If you find yourself sketched out on a patch of ice, you can potentially remove the ice axe and swing it into the ice for security. At that point, you could put in an ice screw to get really secure, then transition to crampons or something.

My brother Carl and I did this when we skied the NW Face of the North Ridge of Forbidden Peak . We didn't encounter any ice, but we regularly stopped and plunged in an ice axe (and clipped to it) so we could take photographs safely.

I'm not a big advocate of steep skiing, and I don't claim to be an expert at it, but to me having a backup of this sort seems sensible. If you want to read the ultimate steep skier's nightmare, read this account of Hans Saari's fall on the Gervasutti Couloir in 2001:

threecrazylives.com/2014/05/06/surviving...me-in-the-mountains/

Could he have saved himself with an ice axe handy? It's impossible to know. Just reading this account gives me the willies.

Don't confuse objective hazards with subjective hazards. Most of the precautionary methods discussed deal with subjective hazards.

Don't confuse objective hazards with subjective hazards.  Most of the precautionary methods discussed deal with subjective hazards.

Agreed. The title of this thread is mis-worded.

Lowell, the cultures of climbing and skiing do seem to look at mountains through different lenses. This makes for interesting differences in terrain and risk analysis.

Both cultures require an understanding that not proving the negative repeatedly is more luck than skill.

I'm older so I manage danger by skiing no more than maybe D7 in the backcountry whereas I probably ski D 13 in bounds. Also, when in the backcountry I'm usually with others who don't ski steeper stuff that well, or more frequently by myself. By dropping down so many levels, my chances of falling or getting in a slide are greatly minimized. When I see someone skiing at their limit miles from the nearest trailhead - it makes my back sore...

I manage cold by bringing enough stuff to probably survive a night or two.

I don't ski things I can't see the bottom of (or haven't seen it before)

I ski slow and solidly enough that I DONT fall on steeps - ever. I will vary my
technique to stay safe in the conditions. I can straight line or jump turn without shame. I can side slip or kick turn.

I don't usually ski something where a fall will probably kill me.

I like being the best skier in a group so I don't have to trust others I don't know well enough - or get scared.