Managing hazards when skiing

yea, I wouldn't even have a clue what those classic lines are.

They're the ones you read about in the TR forum.

Oh those tours like the Slot at Alpy. Some folks are floating the idea that there may be a 'TAY heuristic' at play. These tours, which require a high level of knowledge in hazard analysis, are starting to seem common place and familiar somehow. Its seems OK to go hit that line even without an understanding of how to recognize or midigate a hazard like ski cutting that 3' windslab on hard or simply turning around. I love to be turned back when hazardous conditions dictate that I do so. It means that I may actually have learned something that may keep me alive. We don't read many TRs about the 'success of turning back'.

Mt Snoq. is a big mtn that holds many lines, several I'd even consider to be some of my "secret stashes". The Slot is not one of "those tours" Hop is referring to-and if memory serves we hit that together some 5-6 yrs ago in April with some pretty prime conditions. I've personally skied it numerous times since the 90's and while fairly steep and certainly aesthetic, lacks the exposure and fear factor that comes with the "you fall, you die" lines to which I believe Hop is referring to. Other hazards are certainly in play and while the frequency in which it is now skied may breed complacency in a subset of BC enthusiasists, it hardly seems that it has become "OK" to ignore the hazards while focusing on the objective.

If you read through the TRs with any regularity you'll find plenty of examples where folks encounter hazards and alter plans accordingly, sometimes due to snow conditions/stability, but also because of changes in weather, onset of fatigue, equipment challenges, or because the line is not in. Occasionally it is due to differences in risk tolerance among members of a party.

I have tried over the years to mitigate hazard by not confusing the current objective (bagging the peak, riding the line, checking off the tick list) with what the goal is. As a life long skier, my goal is still to ski as much as possible for as long as possible.

I have tried over the years to mitigate hazard by not confusing the current objective (bagging the peak, riding the line, checking off the tick list) with what the goal is.  As a life long skier, my goal is still to ski as much as possible for as long as possible. 

Perfectly said.

Mt Snoq. is a big mtn that holds many lines, several I'd even consider to be some of my "secret stashes".  The Slot is not one of "those tours" Hop is referring to-and if memory serves we hit that together some 5-6 yrs ago in April with some pretty prime conditions.  I've personally skied it numerous times since the 90's and while fairly steep and certainly aesthetic, lacks the exposure and fear factor that comes with the "you fall, you die" lines to which I believe Hop is referring to. Other hazards are certainly in play and while the frequency in which it is now skied may breed complacency in a subset of BC enthusiasists, it hardly seems that it has become "OK" to ignore the hazards while focusing on the objective.

If you read through the TRs with any regularity you'll find plenty of examples where folks encounter hazards and alter plans accordingly, sometimes due to snow conditions/stability, but also because of changes in weather, onset of fatigue, equipment challenges, or because the line is not in.   Occasionally it is due to differences in risk tolerance among members of a party.

I have tried over the years to mitigate hazard by not confusing the current objective (bagging the peak, riding the line, checking off the tick list) with what the goal is.  As a life long skier, my goal is still to ski as much as possible for as long as possible. 

Was that already 5-6 years ago? How time flies.

While the Slot is definitely not without consequence, Mofro's right - the tours I'm referring to are the big ones I'm more familiar with (from a distance, anyways) along the 542 corridor. Basically anything on Shuksan (White Salmon, NW Couloir, North Face, etc.) and things like the N. Ridge, Coleman Headwall, Park Headwall on Baker. 15, even 10 years ago you might have seen less than a handful of tracks on the White Salmon per season but over the past few years it seems that with any marginal weather window there are tons (relatively) of people gunning for those lines. Back when I first showed up in 1999 anything no Shuksan was considered serious business, now it seems like it's a play zone/extension of the Arm (which I still consider serious business, but seem to be in the minority).

I'm going to guess there are similar zones elsewhere in the Cascades that have seen an increase in ambition lately as well.

I liked what Mofro said. I'd like to add that as a mostly former rock climber, I got used to always backing everything up, all the time. I always felt that if I was going to be doing a dangerous thing for hours a day every time I went out - I had to be careful and safe every time I had the chance to be - because there were also many times when things weren't safe. In skiing you can't use redundancy and back everything up. But you can use a similar mentality of being careful and being certain you don't make any stupid mistakes. Be as careful as you can on easy and moderate terrain so that the odds don't build up against you. There will be times when some risks need to be taken. If these times are not too frequent, you'll probably have a long career - unless you're unlucky

That's good thinking Avajane.

I mostly find myself cautious on the climb and always try to take the safe route up even when avy conditions are very stable just out of habit. I have similar habits for descent when my concerns are avalanches but I need to work on my habits and skills for skiing questionable or unknown snow or blind descents that have been spotted from below but without a line of sight from the drop in point.

Thinking more about applying some of these techniques to places that I'll hopefully ride someday, would it be worth taking the time to stop and set up a belay in places like the NW couloir on Shuksan below the drop in. I'm thinking specifically about the best way to protect the traverse. Obviously belaying the entire line would be very time consuming and ruin the fun of the ride but where is the line drawn? Is it practical to set a running belay with a picket while skiing downhill? It seems like the second would be at the piece very quickly and it could be more of a hazard than a protection.