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Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
- Gary Vogt
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13 years 2 months ago #207211
by Gary Vogt
Scotsman, as usual, has hit the nail on the head. I would support such a legal effort.
I'm not the Lone Ranger in my opinions and experience of NPS management 'cult'ure:
"...within The Case of the Indian Trader Mr. Berkowitz peels back the luminous outer skin of the Park Service to reveal a dysfunctional culture, one that by his accounts has more than a few times placed itself above the law. It is a culture that at times seems to struggle with the question of whether the ends justify the means. One that, despite findings and warnings from the Interior Department's inspector general, outwardly seems to have resisted change."
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/review/201...ell-trading-post8015
"What also makes this book hard to review is Berkowitz’ unflattering analysis of NPS culture, its law enforcement program and its senior management. While he admits that there are lots of good NPS employees, he is relentless in his criticism of what he sees as corruption, cronyism, and lack of respect for law and policy within the ranks of NPS leadership." (This by a highly-respected former NPS superintendent & chairman of the retired employees association).
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/review/201...ell-trading-post8533
For those of you who still have faith in FOIA:
www.schundler.net/FOIA.htm
In recent years, the National Park Service has ranked near the bottom of all Federal Agencies in annual employee job satisfaction surveys; the common thread of comments and complaints is poor leadership:
2009 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/06/su...vernment-agency-work
2010 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/09/be...ed-still-far-top6511
2011 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2011/11/na...es-work-rankings9091
Replied by Gary Vogt on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
Sue them....get an injunction.......nothing else will work.
Scotsman, as usual, has hit the nail on the head. I would support such a legal effort.
I'm not the Lone Ranger in my opinions and experience of NPS management 'cult'ure:
"...within The Case of the Indian Trader Mr. Berkowitz peels back the luminous outer skin of the Park Service to reveal a dysfunctional culture, one that by his accounts has more than a few times placed itself above the law. It is a culture that at times seems to struggle with the question of whether the ends justify the means. One that, despite findings and warnings from the Interior Department's inspector general, outwardly seems to have resisted change."
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/review/201...ell-trading-post8015
"What also makes this book hard to review is Berkowitz’ unflattering analysis of NPS culture, its law enforcement program and its senior management. While he admits that there are lots of good NPS employees, he is relentless in his criticism of what he sees as corruption, cronyism, and lack of respect for law and policy within the ranks of NPS leadership." (This by a highly-respected former NPS superintendent & chairman of the retired employees association).
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/review/201...ell-trading-post8533
For those of you who still have faith in FOIA:
www.schundler.net/FOIA.htm
In recent years, the National Park Service has ranked near the bottom of all Federal Agencies in annual employee job satisfaction surveys; the common thread of comments and complaints is poor leadership:
2009 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2009/06/su...vernment-agency-work
2010 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/09/be...ed-still-far-top6511
2011 www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2011/11/na...es-work-rankings9091
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- Randito
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13 years 2 months ago #207212
by Randito
Yes as the article in the link shows, when an agency has something to hide the FOIA process requires determination and endurance to pursue.
At the conclusion of the link you cite above:
Replied by Randito on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
....
For those of you who still have faith in FOIA:
www.schundler.net/FOIA.htm
...
Yes as the article in the link shows, when an agency has something to hide the FOIA process requires determination and endurance to pursue.
At the conclusion of the link you cite above:
And so change can happen, the effort was worth it, and at least one park in the National Park Service is doing a little better!
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- Gary Vogt
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13 years 2 months ago #207215
by Gary Vogt
Replied by Gary Vogt on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
The point of the link was to show the national extent of the problem. The fact that the public is routinely put thru this crap does indeed make it look like the NPS has something to hide!
"Mr. Schundler is no newbie when it comes to FOIA, for as a businessman in New Jersey he had "worked under the guidelines of the Sunshine Law and the Freedom of Information Act." Too, he also was a town councilman who had to deal with government openness from that side of the desk. And yet, despite this experience, he has been subjected to a correspondence-heavy, administrative maze since requesting information on Mesa Verde's fiscal 2007 and fiscal 2008 budgets, the travels of its superintendent, and the number of unfilled vacancies at the park. Mesa Verde officials initially put off his first requests for the information, saying the staff was too busy to comply immediately.
"What is ironical," Mr. Schundler wrote in response, "is that the information I requested in my first letter could have been generated on some computers within five to ten minutes. They are basic and standard reports; they are easily generated..."
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/02/in...ess-impedes-goal5366
"Mr. Schundler is no newbie when it comes to FOIA, for as a businessman in New Jersey he had "worked under the guidelines of the Sunshine Law and the Freedom of Information Act." Too, he also was a town councilman who had to deal with government openness from that side of the desk. And yet, despite this experience, he has been subjected to a correspondence-heavy, administrative maze since requesting information on Mesa Verde's fiscal 2007 and fiscal 2008 budgets, the travels of its superintendent, and the number of unfilled vacancies at the park. Mesa Verde officials initially put off his first requests for the information, saying the staff was too busy to comply immediately.
"What is ironical," Mr. Schundler wrote in response, "is that the information I requested in my first letter could have been generated on some computers within five to ten minutes. They are basic and standard reports; they are easily generated..."
www.nationalparkstraveler.com/2010/02/in...ess-impedes-goal5366
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- Randito
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13 years 2 months ago #207233
by Randito
Replied by Randito on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
VotSki -- From my knothole I think important point is whether you are actually interested in improving conditions at Mt Rainier Park -- This will certainly required a fair amount of sustained effort on your part using the FOIA act to expose the mismanagement that you have indicated.
Bruce Schundler's considerable and sustained FOIA efforts at Mesa Verde park actually did result in the replacement of the park superintendent and his manager and improvement in the management of Mesa Verde park.
Venting about these problems in this forum may feel good, but that alone seems unlikely to change park management and practices for the better.
Letter writing to congressional representatives as I indicated above is an additional way to bring political pressure to bear on the NPS to become more efficient and responsive. Here is that contact information again:
www.house.gov/representatives/find/
www.senate.gov/general/contact_informati...ors_cfm.cfm?State=WA
Bruce Schundler's considerable and sustained FOIA efforts at Mesa Verde park actually did result in the replacement of the park superintendent and his manager and improvement in the management of Mesa Verde park.
Venting about these problems in this forum may feel good, but that alone seems unlikely to change park management and practices for the better.
Letter writing to congressional representatives as I indicated above is an additional way to bring political pressure to bear on the NPS to become more efficient and responsive. Here is that contact information again:
www.house.gov/representatives/find/
www.senate.gov/general/contact_informati...ors_cfm.cfm?State=WA
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- Monty_B
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13 years 2 months ago #207235
by Monty_B
Replied by Monty_B on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
Okay, I’ll bite:
Seems to me that before this latest change in operations, the biggest gripe (though not the only one) among us backcountry types about MRNP was the consistently late gate opening times during the winter at Longmire. If the goal of the Tuesday-Wednesday closing is to free up resources that will allow for earlier gate opening times on days when more of us are likely to be headed to the Paradise or Tatoosh environs, then this seems like it could be a VERY GOOD THING and could EVEN be in response to feedback from the public about the late opening problem.
If they are actually responding to public input with this move, I’ll feel pretty bad about the beating the Parkies are taking right now, at least in this venue. And, if they are actually responding to public input, and earlier gate openings are actually the goal, and they are paying attention to this bitch fest, I imagine that they will feel like they just can’t win.
I agree it’s too bad for the folks who get to play on Tuesday and Wednesday, but then, I don’t feel too bad for those folks. Plenty of other un-crowded places on those days.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see.
As with conditions: “High hopes and low expectations”.
Cheers,
Monty
Seems to me that before this latest change in operations, the biggest gripe (though not the only one) among us backcountry types about MRNP was the consistently late gate opening times during the winter at Longmire. If the goal of the Tuesday-Wednesday closing is to free up resources that will allow for earlier gate opening times on days when more of us are likely to be headed to the Paradise or Tatoosh environs, then this seems like it could be a VERY GOOD THING and could EVEN be in response to feedback from the public about the late opening problem.
If they are actually responding to public input with this move, I’ll feel pretty bad about the beating the Parkies are taking right now, at least in this venue. And, if they are actually responding to public input, and earlier gate openings are actually the goal, and they are paying attention to this bitch fest, I imagine that they will feel like they just can’t win.
I agree it’s too bad for the folks who get to play on Tuesday and Wednesday, but then, I don’t feel too bad for those folks. Plenty of other un-crowded places on those days.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see.
As with conditions: “High hopes and low expectations”.
Cheers,
Monty
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- Pete A
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13 years 2 months ago - 13 years 2 months ago #207237
by Pete A
Replied by Pete A on topic Re: Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds
fwiw, I agree with what Monty wrote. While the lack of public input on the decision is frustrating- my primary gripe was the proposed camping ban up on the mountain when the road was closed, and that item was clarified/changed within a couple days of the road closure policy being released.
Granted there wasn't any new snow at Rainier during this past weekend, so the plowing was probably less of a chore than the usual stormy days but it was pretty nice to see that the road was opened before 8am both days. We had a carload of folks there on Sunday and it was certainly welcome to not waste the morning waiting at Longmire.
I'll be curious if the park service can continue those early openings on days that require more plowing, but it seems possible that Rainier will get more overall wintertime visitors even with the two day shutdown if they can get that road open earlier than in the past.
Granted there wasn't any new snow at Rainier during this past weekend, so the plowing was probably less of a chore than the usual stormy days but it was pretty nice to see that the road was opened before 8am both days. We had a carload of folks there on Sunday and it was certainly welcome to not waste the morning waiting at Longmire.
I'll be curious if the park service can continue those early openings on days that require more plowing, but it seems possible that Rainier will get more overall wintertime visitors even with the two day shutdown if they can get that road open earlier than in the past.
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