Changes at Mt Rainier -- road closed Tues, Weds

BTW, Obama made it so gun owners can carry their guns on NPS lands with a state concealed carry permit.

I do play the game ...

Touche on the first, and VERY impressive on the rest (particularly the NLT. I'm a huge fan of land trusts)!

Isn't this issue one where you'd activate that Ashford-area community (and perhaps beyond)? I realize it's likely frustrating to have to in the first place....

As others have already mentioned in this thread, the lack of a skiing contituency puts us at a disadvantage.

I agree entirely, which is why we should all help Samthaman build his advocacy group!  Speaking of which, Sam, check your inbox.

Access is going down, but conversely touring numbers are now going way up (myself included) and will likely continue to do so.  All issues have a tipping point, and hopefully this closure event will serve as one.  I honestly feel that a single agenda group focused on ACCESS is an unrepresented need.

Andrew Carey - your efforts to help your community are very impressive and seem well coordinated.  

Hot off the MountRainierNPS Twitter feed:

www.nps.gov/mora/parknews/winter-access-changes.htm

The park is open for overnight winter camping with a valid permit seven days a week, but vehicle access will not be maintained from Longmire to Paradise on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Therefore, if visitors are parked at Paradise when the road closes on a Monday evening, they should not expect to be able to drive back to Longmire until the road opens on Thursday morning (weather permitting).

wow! very very glad to see that change to the policy.     The road closure is one thing, but their proposed ban to camping on Tues/Wed didn't make any sense at all.

Go somewhere else! I-90, U.S. 2, 542 and 12 are all open year round, and are FAR more important to commerce.

Yes, it would be great if the Paradise road, road to White River/Sunrise, etc. were consistently open year round and I'd probably use them occasionally in winter (though not much, because the weather is usually awful). They're not, so I go somewhere else. Big deal. If I'm going to write a letter to Congress about an issue, one road in one park for recreational purposes - especially when there are perfectly viable alternatives available - is WAY down the list of priorities.

I'd feel differently about this if mid-week traffic was substantial enough to generate significant economic activity. I suspect it isn't, who knows? I doubt breakfast at Tall Timbers and a gas station or two qualifies as "substantial." Are the local businesses making a stink about this? It seems to me they'd be more influential than cheap skiers, but maybe not given the Hurricane Ridge experience.

One man's opinion....

I've basically been approaching this with the understanding that the park is a public good bought and paid for with taxpayer dollars. Like roads, armies, bridges, lighthouses, etc, it provides a good that couldn't be supported economically by a private entity, namely high-quality affordable wilderness access and natural beauty. I don't think that anyone wants to wade into a debate about national funding priorities or even regional funding priorities, we're only aiming to debate the parks use of the money they already receive and generate through fees. Sadly, it seems like this debate is impossible to have since the park is being tight lipped about their budget.

A close examination of the parks founding documents or mission statement (if there is such a thing) is probably called for, but I would suspect that it was founded, at least in part, on the principle of public access or as you suggested for the enjoyment of the public. If the public can't access the park, I think it's pretty conservative to say that they necessarily can't be enjoying it. Further, I would think that a practical minimum level of access to the park should be a priority over the maintenance of visitors centers, gift shops, employee housing, and the like. Access to trailheads and view points are, in my mind, instrumental to the enjoyment of the park.

Your suggestion that there are viable alternatives to skiing at Rainier is spot on, but it misses the point. You basically listed every High elevation trailhead that's open in the winter across a several hundred mile mountain range. Without access to a snowmobile, reasonable day or even two day ski and and snowshoe trips in the Cascades are limited to a handfull of options centered around the passes you listed. Compared to the access the FS road network offers in the summer, the winter access is an embarrassment and yet I'm not suggesting that they plow every road that's open in the summer, just a few high priority, paved access points.

I would bet that open roads combined with active promotion of winter recreation by the park and maybe a guidebook highlighting tour options would lead to a dramatic increase in winter recreation in both ONP and MRNP, possibly even enough to offset the costs of plowing.

I've replied to PM's that have been sent to me, it's encouraging to hear that others are interested.

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I would bet that open roads combined with active promotion of winter recreation by the park and maybe a guidebook highlighting tour options would lead to a dramatic increase in winter recreation in both ONP and MRNP, possibly even enough to offset the costs of plowing.

I've replied to PM's that have been sent to me, it's encouraging to hear that others are interested.

I know there has been considerable discussion within the Park about public safety and how to contribute to it  without compromising the wilderness setting (practically all areas 1/2 mile from a road are legal Wildernesses) and, I presume as with all federal agencies, without negatively impacting private sector opportunities.  There has been a long standing opinion on the part of some Park employees that the road from Paradise to Longmire should not be open in the winter due to vehicle accidents and lost outdoor enthusiasts.   Other Park employees have quite the opposite opinion.  Obviously the events of last year and the two people lost this year have raised concerns about public safety to a fever pitch.  And, I read in the paper, the Park recently had a big discussion on safety relative to the loss of the LEO last year.  Some things IMHO should have been done long ago.

(1) given the Park vigorously promoted snowshoeing by inexperienced outdoor enthusiasts, they should provide some well marked trails for novice to intermediate snowshoers: say Paradise-4th Xing-Mazama Ridge-Reflection Lakes-Paradise via the Narada Falls Devil's Dip trail and perhaps some loops base on the paved hiking trail system just above Paradise and in Barn Flats.  They have been reluctant to do so because of the wilderness concerns, I've been told, but that is quite at odds with the fact that these areas have paved trails and signs in the summer.  Other trails could benefit from markers in the snow--such as the High Skyline and Golden Gate trails and the route to Camp Muir; these seem to be the places where people most often lose their way.  The markers don't have to be neon lights, just numbered poles that key to maps.

(2) the Park should groom the Paradise Valley Road and sign it to make usable by XC skiers and snowshoers; same with Barn Flats; maybe even Westside Road when appropriate.

(3) the Park should either develop or get a business to develop a really good, easy to use map of Paradise Environs to Reflection Lakes; I believe I have rescued 2 dozen people in real hazard because of the inscrutable little blue map they hand out; there is a very nice large scale map of MRNP for sale at the Summit House in Ashford (I carry it sometimes and sometimes Green Trail topo maps), but it isn't very handy as a guide for the novice. And I don't think a majority of the park visitors are aware of these maps or the very good hiking and skiing guide books that are available.

(4) if staffing shortfalls are a concern relative to safety during mid-week, work with citizen user groups to develop a certification system and only allow certified  bc travelers to go alone or in small groups; uncertified bc travelers should be required to be in a group led by a certified senior bc traveler.  The Mountaineers have had such requirements for ever--basic skills, courses, 10 essentials; the Guide services require certain training as well.  I believe most of the real bc skiers and many of the advanced snowshoers have had compass courses, avalanche courses, 1st aid courses, etc.  This approach should allay Park fears, knowing that many of the people out there have had a significant amount of training and experience in the relevant skills needed for safe travel in the wilderness in the winter.  It might even be possible to have a cadre/call list of experienced alpinists and alpine ski tourers intimately familiar with MRNP that could assist in S&R.

These are just some of the ideas a citizen advisory committee could discuss with Park personnel, and if agreed upon, help develop without any significant cost to the Park.  The MTTA has a volunteer Ski Patrol program that incorporates a lot of this kind of training with about 50 active patrollers.