Baker south side reports?

I'm not sure if the map posted by Amar is correct. It is certainly inconsistent with the map posted on the FS site (which clearly shows the crater at the top of the permitted zone): www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/mbs/recreation/r...recid=30330&actid=51

The FS is well aware that sledders have been riding all the way to the crater and parking in that exact spot (which is the only safe spot to park in that area) as they have been doing so for the last 30 years (at least). Pretty sure it's not illegal.

Amar's ability to identify an invisible boundary line rivals that of my sister in the back seat of the family wagon when we were on family vacations as kids. His sense of outrage is similar too.

I'm not sure if the map posted by Amar is correct.   It is certainly inconsistent with the map posted on the FS site (which clearly shows the crater at the top of the permitted zone): www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/mbs/recreation/r...recid=30330&actid=51

The FS is well aware that sledders have been riding all the way to the crater and parking in that exact spot (which is the only safe spot to park in that area) as they have been doing so for the last 30 years (at least).  Pretty sure it's not illegal. 

Amar's ability to identify an invisible boundary line rivals that of my sister in the back seat of the family wagon when we were on family vacations as kids.  His sense of outrage is similar too.   

Just because wilderness trespass has been ongoing for 30 years does not make it legal. If there isn't a flat spot to park snowmobiles within the legal NRA, then they should have thought of that when they lobbied to set the boundary decades ago. What they are doing is 100% illegal, but they are just not being ticketed or arrested or having their sleds confiscated. Yet. That time will certainly come, and much sooner than they want, if this constant wilderness trespass continues. Why don't they just stop doing this illegal activity instead?

I fail to see anything that qualifies as a navigational map on the page you linked. Are you talking about this map?:



You're joking, right? Please tell me so. You really think that "clearly shows the crater at the top of the permitted zone"?? You think someone's hand drawing (clearly marked "General location map, not to scale") shows the official boundary? Wow, just blown away by that, totally stunned that anyone could possibly think so.

The boundary on the map I posted is 100% correct, because I did not draw it myself, it is already drawn on the current USFS Mount Baker Wilderness Map that I scanned. The same exact boundary is shown on USGS topo maps.

I have no special ability to identify an invisible boundary line. But it's their own fault and lack of skill if they can't identify this particular invisible boundary line in the field, it requires only the desire to open their eyes and look. No GPS or anything else needed.

It is a straight line connecting two obvious, easily visible landmarks. All that anyone has to do is look up at Sherman Peak, then down towards the cliffs which divide the Easton and Deming Glaciers, and they will know instantly whether they are to the east or west of that line. Especially when they are parked on that flat spot, or over by the crater saddle, it is simply not possible to mistake where they are relative to this particular invisible boundary line, since those spots are SO FAR over the line.

Great link Amar. I love the way GMap 4 displays USGS topo maps. You can switch between the various digital scanning of original topographic maps (topo high, topo low, etc.) as well as control the shading (I prefer to turn it off). As you might expect, regardless of how it was scanned, they all show the Wilderness boundary as you described it.

Just because wilderness trespass has been ongoing for 30 years does not make it legal. If there isn't a flat spot to park snowmobiles within the legal NRA, then they should have thought of that when they lobbied to set the boundary decades ago. What they are doing is 100% illegal, but they are just not being ticketed or arrested or having their sleds confiscated. Yet. That time will certainly come, and much sooner than they want, if this constant wilderness trespass continues. Why don't they just stop doing this illegal activity instead?

I fail to see anything that qualifies as a navigational map on the page you linked. Are you talking about this map?:

You're joking, right? Please tell me so. You really think that "clearly shows the crater at the top of the permitted zone"?? You think someone's hand drawing (clearly marked "General location map, not to scale") shows the official boundary? Wow, just blown away by that, totally stunned that anyone could possibly think so.

The boundary on the map I posted is 100% correct, because I did not draw it myself, it is already drawn on the current USFS Mount Baker Wilderness Map that I scanned. The same exact boundary is shown on USGS topo maps.

I have no special ability to identify an invisible boundary line. But it's their own fault and lack of skill if they can't identify this particular invisible boundary line in the field, it requires only the desire to open their eyes and look. No GPS or anything else needed.

It is a straight line connecting two obvious, easily visible landmarks. All that anyone has to do is look up at Sherman Peak, then down towards the cliffs which divide the Easton and Deming Glaciers, and they will know instantly whether they are to the east or west of that line. Especially when they are parked on that flat spot, or over by the crater saddle, it is simply not possible to mistake where they are relative to this particular invisible boundary line, since those spots are SO FAR over the line.

Here are some indisputable facts Amar:

1. The sled community believes that it is legal to ride to the crater (including the clubs that interface w/ the FS all the time).
2. Sledders ride to the crater practically every day during the season (and have been for probably 30 years), not because they are negligent or intentional law breakers, but because they believe it is legal.
3. FS knows about this and does not object, even when it happens in their presence (e.g., at snomo club events that are also attended by the FS - which happens every year).
4. The FS posts a map on the page on their site dedicated to snomo rules on Baker and it shows the top of the mountain between the Roman Wall and Sherman Peak as within the legal zone (which just so happens to be the spot you are flagging as illegal).

That map may not be up to your lofty standards Amar, but the FS knows people will rely on it. (And if you think "official" maps are perfect you may want to look into the story of the Infinite Bliss climbing route controversy on Mt. Garfield.)

Please tell me you at least called the FS to confirm that it is illegal before coming on here to declare it "100% illegal". I'd be just blown away, totally stunned in fact, if an individual with your obvious attention to detail (based on your excellent trip reports) did something so reckless.

Here are some indisputable facts Amar:
4. The FS posts a map ...

Where is the map you are talking about? The link you had earlier had a map, but we both assume you can't possibly be talking about that map. Please put a link to the map you are talking about. Every map I've looked at (which are all USGS maps, by the way) shows the border specified exactly as Amar says it is.

So, that about covers it for ya, eh Sam?