WMC Update 2012

In reply to ruffryder regarding fair and equal sharing of the forest:

On the Okanogan-Wenatchee NF (OWNF) there exists about 40% wilderness area (total acreage). That leaves 60% of the forest open to motorized use in the winter. How by any strecth of the imagination is that parity?

Granted there are a few small areas closed to snowmobile use outside of wilderness areas, Tronsen Meadows for example, which is so small a skier can cross the entire area in 2-3 hours of ski touring. But even counting those very small non-motorized areas that exist the total acreage available for winter motorized use on the OWNF is huge.

WMC is only asking for a fair and equitable sharing of the forest resource and as the current situation now exists that is not the case.

Ruffryder, You make a great point about the accesibility.

By a cruel twist of fate is unfortunate that those of us that prefer our winter recreation be gained quietly, and on foot, have the longest distance to travel to get there. A large portion of the wilderness areas are inaccessible in the winter to someone traveling on foot (ski/snowshoe). We would love to have the luxury to drive to a sno-park and be able to step out into a non-motorized winter playground.

Let's try to keep this from devolving, if we can.  No need for mudslinging -- it's a heated enough topic without making it more personal than it needs to be.

Where was your moderating wisdom when they were calling me British and it was getting personal about me. HHHAAAAAAA
Hadn't visited this thread since my last post, some good stuff here- on both sides.

That exchange between Aaron and Brit was part of the reason I made the comment that you quoted.  I let it play out to see where it would go.  Aaron was, inelegantly, trying to understand why people would have views that were different from his own.  It's not an insult to say someone's from the UK.  Brit responded quickly (and said pretty much what I was going to) and it ended there.

Cookie's conversation with Yamma was getting too personal, in my opinion.  It has nothing to do with who was critiqued (or doing the critiquing), it has to do with what was being said. 

I'm sorry if you got a different impression.  I appreciate the effort folks have made to actually have a useful conversation here.

Let's take another dive into sled culture. If you're curious as to why WMC wants to remain as anonymous as possible, well ... here is a thread where they posted the name and address of people opposed to sledding, and where they encouraged hostile phone contact.

backcountryrebels.com/showthread.php?t=7167&page=2

Jim Oker, do you want to know why you were sprayed? A lot of sledders actively encourage what amounts to DANGEROUS and ILLEGAL mistreatment of skiers.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. YammaDog, would you care to make a comment? Perhaps you can produce similar materials from the backcountry skier side of this argument?

Well actually, there was a post not too long ago about snowmobiles when a fairly prominent TAYer called for laying out fishing line so that snowmobiler tracks could become entangled. He was shot down pretty fast but for the record. I believe the thread then devolved into analogies with another TAY'er comparing them ( snowmobilers)to the Nazis. Godwins law was then invoked.

We ask skiers to advocate on their own behalf. We are not instructing skiers to do this or that, we are asking skiers to advocate on their own behalf for designation of non-motorized winter recreation areas on the Forest.

The problem with this approach is that most of the readers of this forum spend little time skiing in the areas you're interested in. So, your approach is essentially to point the cats in a general direction and suggest that they should herd themselves. I don't see how this is going to work.

I think that to generate the support you're seeking you need to provide a lot more information for skiers to understand and emotionally connect with this issue. A little of that information has dribbled out in this thread, but this is an inefficient way to communicate. In an earlier posting, you shrugged off the need for marketing. I don't think of it as marketing, I think of it as leadership.

You have a vision. You need to communicate it.

You have a clear understanding of a problem that your readers only vaguely grasp. You need to make them feel your pain.

My reading of human nature (based on my own nature) is that you will need to do these things to spur people to action.