WMC Update 2012

Areas are not designated as 'motorized' in winter for snowmobiles in WA on Forest other than groomed roads. Such offroad snowmobile use has occurred by default, without intention or plan or with the realization that snowmobiles would be ridden in places that are now routinely ridden. The lack of clear management of snowmobile use is the culprit.

In asking for designated non-motorized winter recreation areas, we are asking for management of snowmobile use on the Forest.

Thanks, I pointed this out earlier but it always gets ignored by snowmobilers. The current language on snowmobile use talks about groomed and ungroomed routes and states noting about off route travel, this needs to be addressed. Historically motorized use on FS land has been restricted to roads and trails, why should winter be any different? I think a reasonable compromise would included certain areas where off route travel is prohibited, such as the areas in the proposal put forward by WMC.

Has it occured to anyone that maybe you should view yourselves as lucky for being able to ride in a designated motorized area for so long for such a high quality?  Why is it that when snowmobilers can finally take advantage of the area DESIGNATED for  them to use that it is now taking away from non-motorized users?

WMC's reply was excellent and deserves to be enlarged and pasted up on the wall:

Areas are not designated as 'motorized' in winter for snowmobiles in WA on Forest other than groomed roads. Such offroad snowmobile use has occurred by default, without intention or plan or with the realization that snowmobiles would be ridden in places that are now routinely ridden. The lack of clear management of snowmobile use is the culprit.

To reinforce WMC's post, I'd like to reply to ruffryder: Has it occurred to snowmobilers that maybe you should view yourselves as lucky for being able to ride in any off-road/off-trail areas of the Forest? None of these areas have been DESIGNATED for mechanized use. The capabilities of today's snowmobiles were undreamed of by Forest managers 30 years ago. Pushing the use of snowmobiles into areas that were traditionally non-motorized is bound to trigger a backlash. People have rights, machines don't.

WMC's reply was excellent and deserves to be enlarged and pasted up on the wall:

To reinforce WMC's post, I'd like to reply to ruffryder: Has it occurred to snowmobilers that maybe you should view yourselves as lucky for being able to ride in any off-road/off-trail areas of the Forest? None of these areas have been DESIGNATED for mechanized use. The capabilities of today's snowmobiles were undreamed of by Forest managers 30 years ago. Pushing the use of snowmobiles into areas that were traditionally non-motorized is bound to trigger a backlash. People have rights, machines don't.

Thank You.

I believe that restricting snowmobiles to roads and clearcuts would be more than reasonable, and snowmobilers should be thankful that they're even allowed that much.

  If 40+10=50 (%, ie. 'parity', a premise I do not accept), what do you do in the areas where Wilderness density is much less than on the OWNF?

No amount of gamesmanship changes the fact that off trail sleds are the smoker in the restaurant ~ only one compromises the other (parking excepted). 

If I am the only BC skier, I still expect to readily find public space free of noise and stink and reasonably natural ~ and that this should be the norm.   Buffers areas to designated wilderness areas are a logical choice, as part of the whole, and frankly, the default should be that off trail public space is non-motorized

If I'm a sledder, I expect to reasonably find where I can have my responsible fun without having to answer to every pseudo environmentalist or individual or group that doesn’t appreciate my activity.  “Islands” , with fall lines, should be part of this just like some sand dunes, etc, are available for motorized activity.

The motorized community will only harm their objectives until they accept that their activities, by their very nature, and absent of personal behavior,  trespass on the experience of other BC users.  Some ‘get it’, which is why voluntary non-moto zones exist.  I am a bit surprised that public land agencies have done so little to date to manage these concerns, but it will be coming.  The best thing the motorized community can do for itself is to police its’ abusers and probably offer up further voluntary non-motorized zones.

Areas are not designated as 'motorized' in winter for snowmobiles in WA on Forest other than groomed roads. Such offroad snowmobile use has occurred by default, without intention or plan or with the realization that snowmobiles would be ridden in places that are now routinely ridden. The lack of clear management of snowmobile use is the culprit.

In asking for designated non-motorized winter recreation areas, we are asking for management of snowmobile use on the Forest.

Thank You.

WMC's reply was excellent and deserves to be enlarged and pasted up on the wall:

To reinforce WMC's post, I'd like to reply to ruffryder: Has it occurred to snowmobilers that maybe you should view yourselves as lucky for being able to ride in any off-road/off-trail areas of the Forest? None of these areas have been DESIGNATED for mechanized use. The capabilities of today's snowmobiles were undreamed of by Forest managers 30 years ago. Pushing the use of snowmobiles into areas that were traditionally non-motorized is bound to trigger a backlash. People have rights, machines don't.

Thank You.

Thanks, I pointed this out earlier but it always gets ignored by snowmobilers. The current language on snowmobile use talks about groomed and ungroomed routes and states noting about off route travel, this needs to be addressed. Historically motorized use on FS land has been restricted to roads and trails, why should winter be any different? I think a reasonable compromise would included certain areas where off route travel is prohibited, such as the areas in the proposal put forward by WMC.

Thank You.

Thank You.

I believe that restricting snowmobiles to roads and clearcuts would be more than reasonable, and snowmobilers should be thankful that they're even allowed that much.

Thank You.

If 40+10=50 (%, ie. 'parity', a premise I do not accept), what do you do in the areas where Wilderness density is much less than on the OWNF?

No amount of gamesmanship changes the fact that off trail sleds are the smoker in the restaurant ~ only one compromises the other (parking excepted).

If I am the only BC skier, I still expect to readily find public space free of noise and stink and reasonably natural ~ and that this should be the norm. Buffers areas to designated wilderness areas are a logical choice, as part of the whole, and frankly, the default should be that off trail public space is non-motorized

If I'm a sledder, I expect to reasonably find where I can have my responsible fun without having to answer to every pseudo environmentalist or individual or group that doesn’t appreciate my activity. “Islands” , with fall lines, should be part of this just like some sand dunes, etc, are available for motorized activity.

The motorized community will only harm their objectives until they accept that their activities, by their very nature, and absent of personal behavior, trespass on the experience of other BC users. Some ‘get it’, which is why voluntary non-moto zones exist. I am a bit surprised that public land agencies have done so little to date to manage these concerns, but it will be coming. The best thing the motorized community can do for itself is to police its’ abusers and probably offer up further voluntary non-motorized zones.

Thank You.

To those readers seeing only the most recent pages, we will ask you to be sure to see the original posting of this thread.

"We must ask USFS to manage this conflict of recreational uses and to create significant and new non-motorized winter recreation areas. To this end some backcountry skiers formed the Wenatchee Mountains Coalition, and we invite skiers and winter non-motorized recreationists to join the Thousand Skiers Project."

We thank the many posters who have commented thus far and especially enjoy seeing posted comments in support. Thank you!