Advertising on TAY: your ideas wanted

Been meaning to add to this...

I think there are some good ideas here.  I love the idea of an ad-free TAY and, like you Charles, I don't like the look of the forum with ads.  That said, it wouldn't change the way I use it and I'd certainly click through to backcountry.com, moosejaw, rei, amazon, mountaingear... a number of sites.  Local shops too, like Pro Mountain and Feathered Friends, though the website for some of the local shops wouldn't really generate many online sales.

I'm also more than happy to donate a portion of Yard Sale sales, or simply have a more aggressive donation plan.  It's one of those things that I always *mean* to do, but rarely remember and I imagine there a lot of folks like me. 

**Donation made...

I wouldn't mind a message board or a specific page that has advertisers there. I don't see how this hurts at all. It keeps it confined to one place or page. The message board would be cool for a local shop to post, "Hey we have some new gear in, check it out." I'm always interested in new gear or a cool pair of skis or a deal or whatever. On the otherhand, just having an adveriser specific page hurts no one and, most importantly, keeps it confined. If that doesn't work then other measures could be taken.

Just a thought...

How about passing the hat at the annual Crystal Mountain picnic (coming up soon?) This is the largest regular gathering of TAY readers, and I bet we could collect a good chunk of money at this event.

Charles
Thanks so much for all your hard work on TAY.

So when is this crystal picnic so that I might attend and tender a donation?

I'd love to see TAY remain ad-free, if possible. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to get a regular donation schedule going, so Charles can count on keeping his LLC. Maybe I am just a techo-grouch Luddite, but I really enjoy "low-fi" approach of the site, and will happily contribute to keep it that way. Hopefully enough others feel the same!

Charles,
A big thanks for all you have done to make this site what it is from what was a "hobby".  I agree with Aaron's earlier comments and support a "tasteful" amount of advertising on the site to generate a steady revenue stream in addition to the other efforts mentioned to increase donations.  I expect alot of folks would donate if it were more visible on the site with a goal in mind and with reminder emails.  I think associate programs, such as Amazon's, would also make sense.  Books such as Martin's would probably sell through links on TAY and generate revenue.   You could help promote these sales to TAY members when new books of interest are published through prominent placement on the site or emails.  There might also be an opportunity for providing a more structured way for selling used gear on the site and earning a listing fee.  Maybe somebody like Second Ascent would be interested in partnering on something like this.

I also fully support you earning an appropriate income to pay for the investment and time you put into this site.  I think it would be great to see more resources coming into TAY so additional features and functionality can be developed in the future to make it even better and ensure its long term viability.

There are lots of good ideas here - I will try to respond to them all in one way or another. Thanks to those who have just donated - that was not the goal of this discussion but donations are never declined! There was a question about tax consequences of donations, and the answer is that donations do not cause any tax-related problems, except for the fact that each of the three taxing entities wants donations to be accounted for in a different way (feds say donations are just income, state says don't even report them, city says report them then deduct). As an aside, I'm a lot more sympathetic to small businesses' complaints about the regulatory jungle now that I'm in it, even if just in a small way!

Maybe this would be a good time for an email/PM "donation drive"? Ski areas have closed, NWAC reports are coming to an end, the REAL ski season is just starting, TAY is more important than ever...? If we were to set some kind of goal, I think I'd like to see it based on the number of contributors. Would 25, 50 or 100 be an achievable goal?

I agree that a subscription fee for access to TAY is not a good idea. Because the conditions info comes from forum users, access has to be easy, and in additon subscription-limited access would be difficult to implement. It would be possible to "encourage" people to sign up as members (for free), rather than remaining as lurkers, by limiting access to certain boards to members only. Limiting access to the current monthly TRs board to members only would provide a strong incentive for people to sign up! Doing this would increase membership numbers, which could be important for some kinds of advertising.

I don't mind sharing the expenses info for TAY. These have been $2400 and $2300 for 2006 and 2007. I expect them to be a little lower for 2008, around $2000. These figures are "in the eyes of the IRS" - which is what counts for the all-important profitability rules - and include straightforward business expenses as well as other factors such as computer equipment and software depreciation. It may be that a $1 profit each year would achieve the "presumption of profit" goal, but it would be nice to have a little more profit cushion than that to bolster the case for a profit motive. I don't get formally paid, but modest yearly profits would allow me to start pulling out my initial capital investments in the business, which would be good enough for now.

I don't have a lot of flexible time these days, so I'm most interested in the fundraising ideas that don't require a lot of coordinated organizing. Fundraisers such as the ones NWAC has are fun and seem to be effective, but I know that they are very time consuming for the organizers. Loosely organized activities like Crystalfest and Slush Cup are different, and a donation bucket would be easy. Last year Crystalfest generously donated $50 in extra beer donations to TAY!

The Yard Sale board voluntary donation idea is a good one, just not sure how to implement it. I don't think that I can easily target a message to one board selectively. I'll have to think about this a little.

I like the idea of creating an advertiser's board ("affiliates board") for pay-per-performance ads on the forum (TAY would get 5-10% of sales generated, except zazzle at 17%). This would allow us to maintain the traditional TAY "look and feel". Each advertiser could have a thread which could contain multiple ads/promos and I could update the threads occasionally with new promos, etc. (as I would have to do with ads displayed throughout the forum). People could look at the ads if they want, but would not be forced to do so. The big question is whether the ads would get used enough - clicks followed by purchases. It's pretty easy to set up a new board, so I'm inclined to give this a try. An Amazon page with links to specific books is also a good idea (haven't signed up as an affiliate with them yet).

With these online ads I wonder about something, though. All of the gear advertisers are non-local, and probably big compared to the local gear shops. How much competiton are online ads for the local shops? Big online advertisers are easy to get because they are part of affiliate programs - five clicks and you're signed up to carry ads from five online retailers. I haven't looked into how advertising would work with local shops, but if online ad competition is a real issue it would be nice to offer them the chance to have a presence as well. I do have contacts at some local shops and I can look into this question through them.