Subaru 05' Outback and newer, DANGEROUS ON ICE!

FWIW - I checked my owner's manual and the safety conscious Swedes let you switch off TCS under 35 mph. "It may be necessary to switch off the system if the car has become bogged down". I'm sold on Nokians as well - got mine with studs and I've never had a traction problem.

bscott, for what it's worth, i have an 07 outback, stick shift, using original tires, and have NOT experienced this problem

I have a 2007 outback , 5 speed with stock tires. I have had the car for 2 winters with no handling problems.

Thank you for all your helpful comments. I’m sure the stability control of the car could be improved by having snow tires, studded tires, changing tire pressure, redistributing the weight load, upgrading the rear stabilization bar, and probably trying other fixes. But the fact remains that these changes would possibly only bring the stability of the car up to what it should have been in the first place. I find it hard to believe that the majority of Outback drivers in the mountains have had to upgrade their stock tires to a high quality snow tire on order to safely control their cars. There are three common points from people who have discussed this problem in the Internet forums. 1. The problem only seems to occur in 2005 or later Outback models; 2. Only a very few of the Outback owners have experienced the problem; 3. Those that have experienced the problem uniformly note that no other car on the road was having control problems at the same time, and that the other cars routinely passed the floundering Subaru at much higher rates of speed. I conclude that if you own a 2005 or late Outback model and you haven’t already experienced this fishtailing problem, then you probably won’t experience it. If you have experienced it, there is no conclusive “fix”, you have a lemon, and it is time to upgrade to a safer car.

Bryan

Bryan, you said you got new M/S tires, which I have to assume means Mud and Snow "Traction" tires as defined by WSDOT. Which tires did you buy? I'm very interested since my girlfriend recently bought a new Outback. If the stock Bridgestones are no good I want to recommend something safer ASAP.

The power transfer theory where the traction systems is sending power to one wheel or the other in a situation where there is some ongoing slip is interesting, though switching off the traction control is the last thing I would try to see if the fishtailing goes away! Gentle braking to a point where the fishtailing stops and then reapplying power seems more prudent.

Does anyone know the weight distribution of the Subi? The newer models to ride higher and more truck-like, and the salesman pointed out that the boxer engine has a lower center of gravity. However there's all that drivetrain hardware and glass to account for.

Robert

The beauty of AWD is the LACK of computer controlled traction control. Just an opinion, I could be wrong. Also I'm wondering if the newer AWD's do work somewhat differently. I know with the STI's for example that there are different differential power settings.

One thing on the tire issue I would wonder about is how wide the original poster's tires are. Whether they be snowtires or all-conditions tires, wider means more slipping on snow and ice. Wider is bad. If your aluminum wheels take the wider tires you might consider snow tires with entirely different rims, the crappy narrow kind. That will jump up your traction. Add studs to that equation and you got chains beat in any circumstance.

POWER in the new suby's is also a problem. My suby has a "manual control" that disengages the automatic. Thus I can start in second gear instead of first thus reducing power, which reduces spinout on ice and snow. If you have a manual, go with less gas, less power, less RPM's and your slip will go away.

POWER in the AWD goes to the tires that are weighted (it sounds illogical but AWD's work better precisely b/c they move power from the wheels that grip the wheels that slip and not the other way around). Keep this in mind b/c if you hit the gas the center of gravity is instantly shifted back and the back tires are given more power. When slipping let up on the gas: I disagree with left foot breaking when going uphill. Downhill, all bets are off. There is little to no advantage to AWD's on downhill ice.

Thank you for all your helpful comments.  I’m sure the stability control of the car could be improved by having snow tires, studded tires, changing tire pressure, redistributing the weight load, upgrading the rear stabilization bar, and probably trying other fixes. But the fact remains that these changes would possibly only bring the stability of the car up to what it should have been in the first place.  I find it hard to believe that the majority of Outback drivers in the mountains have had to upgrade their stock tires to a high quality snow tire on order to safely control their cars. There are three common points from people who have discussed this problem in the Internet forums. 1.  The problem only seems to occur in 2005 or later Outback models; 2. Only a very few of the Outback owners have experienced the problem; 3. Those that have experienced the problem uniformly note that no other car on the road was having control problems at the same time, and that the other cars routinely passed the floundering Subaru at much higher rates of speed. I conclude that if you own a 2005 or late Outback model and you haven’t already experienced this fishtailing problem, then you probably won’t experience it.  If you have experienced it, there is no conclusive “fix”, you have a lemon, and it is time to upgrade to a safer car.

Bryan

With the automatic 2005 I heard there was a transmission recall. Some small part in there was failing (and as such would mess up all the power distribution as well). You might check on that. It's kind of a problem Subaru hasn't been too forthcoming about. (I'm not sure what year it was but it WAS either 2005 or close to it). Call click and clack!