Subaru 05' Outback and newer, DANGEROUS ON ICE!

I don't know about the newer subarus, but some performance AWD cars have torque offsets on the front and rear wheels - The last I looked into it when I got my 2002 wrx, the WRX STI has a 40/60 FWD/AFT ratio but the normal WRX has a 50/50... They might have done something like this to make handling better in dry conditions.

Any car is dangerous on ice

Seriously though. I have a 2005 Outback and have not experienced what you describe - even with all seasons.

That said, as soon as the snow flies I try to get my Nokian Hakka RSI snow tires on. Nothing like them and make the car handle very well on anything I throw at them.


Michael

bscott, is your Subaru a stick shift or automatic? I know they have different default 'power ratios' (don't know the right term) between front and back tires (80F/20R for automatic I think, and split 50-50 for manual) when things aren't slipping. Dunno if that makes a difference.

I haven't noticed any fishtailing in mine (stick shift).

My car is a stick shift. The only thing I learned on the Subaru forum is that not everyone has experienced this problem, and that no one really knows what is causing it. I was hoping to get a more representative sample of bad-weather drivers here. We are all skiers and drive in snow/ice all the time. From the comments here, most 2005 and later model Outbacks do just fine, even with stock tires. I suspect that basically the Outback is a superior product, but that there are a few lemons out there.

I have over 40 years experience driving on icy/snowy roads in all sorts of stormy conditions, and in all sorts of cars with and without good tires. My first drivers-ed course in high school was taught on compact snow and ice. Since then I have not missed a single winter where I didn't have to drive long distances on snow covered pavement. I can say with certainty, that my 2005 Outback is the worst performing car I have ever driven in snowy conditions. Apparently I have one of the lemons.

Bryan

Hey for what it is worth...I searched some of the outback boards and people said the triple treads don't do well on the ice. I looked at the tread pattern and I can see why. If you put a dedicated snow and ice tire on such as a Blizzak or similar your problem will go away and you will be very impressed with your car's ice and snow performance. It is such a big change you wont regret it. You can go to discount tire and they will match anyones price and if you don't like them they will refund your money up to 30 days . I have taken back a set of tires to them before and they ask no questions other than what did you not like. Putting on the Blizzaks eliminated the exact thing you are describing. You really have nothing to loose. If it does not take care of the problem take them back. Your car is not a lemon. People running a wheel drive on snow and ice should have a snow and ice tire. The VDC system on the subie is working your tires are loosing traction and the computer is trying to compensate. Give your car great traction and your problem will go away.

My gut feeling is the tires are just not all that great in snow, but there could be another issue.

Assuming good tires I would check:

1: the rear brakes (the rear brake calipers may be sticking, I have seen this happen on a late model Suby)
2. the rear limited slip differential
3. the center limited slip differential.

Problems with any of these could cause the symptoms you describe. Based on what I have seen, I am inclined to be suspicious of the rear brake calipers. A problem like this would be especially noticeable on slippery roads -- you probably wouldn't notice it at all on dry pavement. Also, If this were happening, one of the rear wheels may feel hot to the touch after driving.

Manual Subarus do not (to my knowledge) have a traction control system. They rely on limited slip differentials that lock up with excessive wheel spin. So the "power transfer" (really torque transfer) is all mechanical. Automatics are different, and use the brakes and wheel speed sensors (the ABS system) to control wheel spin and transfer torque to the other wheels. Fortunately, this means the all wheel drive system is easy to test on a manual car.

You should be able to put the car in neutral, e-brake off (block the other wheels), jack up any wheel, and spin it easily. A hard to turn wheel could indicate a brake or diff problem. A stuck or hard to turn front wheel is likely a problem with a front brake or center diff, a stuck or hard to turn rear wheel may be a stuck brake or bad center or rear diff. To test the rear diff alone put the car in gear and jack up the whole back end. Spin a wheel. The opposite wheel should easily spin in the reverse direction.

If it does turn out that one of the diffs is sticking, it could be something as simple as a fluid change to fix it, or the thing could be really hosed. Either way, if you detect a problem, I would get it checked out by a Subaru mechanic. Having a differential lock up on the highway, or a brake catch fire, could be catastrophic.