Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?

Regarding the downhill kick turn.  Yes, you lose a little elevation and if you are the first in line others will have to wait. It is however the only approved PSIA kick turn taught for years, with both nordic and alpine instructors using it...

I think Splitter was referring to the "downhill initiated turn" described in the new "Backcountry Skiing" book. I described it briefly in my initial post. It is quite a bit different than the PSIA kick turn in which you kick the downhill ski forward, plant the tail, swing the tip around downhill, and so on. In the "dowhill initiated turn" the uphill ski is lifted, moved backward, then swung around and placed below the stationary ski in the new travel direction (leaving you facing uphill in the toes-out ballet position).  To complete the turn, the new uphill ski must be pivoted and slid backward until it can be placed next to the other ski. The book has pictures of this. Yes, you do lose elevation with this turn. And pivoting the new uphill ski could be tough when the snow is steep and/or deep.

I enjoyed the video of the Dartmouth Turn. You make it look easy!

I think Splitter was referring to the "downhill initiated turn" described in the new "Backcountry Skiing" book. I described it briefly in my initial post.

Thanks Lowell,
I lost track of the initial post and am also reminded of how easy it is to skip to what is in the really old memory bank rather than rereading. Sorry.

During our recent trip to Europe we chatted about switchback turns on one of our day trips.

The guide in our party felt strongly that uphill kick turns, as described in the Volken/Schell/Wheeler book, are better. His reasoning is that in this turn, the tail of the "kicked" ski ends up near the toe of the other foot when you're in the middle of the turn. In the pivot turn I illustrated, the tail of the "pivoted" ski ends up near the heel of the other foot (frame 4 in my photo sequence). Thus, in the kick turn, you don't have to spread your legs so far apart. The guide felt that this is much easier.

I understand this reasoning, but I'm not convinced the kick turn is better. For me it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Skis have gotten shorter in recent years, so I don't think the amount of "split" required for the pivot turn is really a problem. Also, proponents of the kick turn acknowledge that with really steep or deep snow it's difficult to do. That's why the Volken/Schell/Wheeler book illustrates a downhill-initiated kick turn. For me, the pivot turn works equally well everywhere, so there's no need to think about which turn to use in a given situation.

Another reason guides prefer the kick turn is that they also prefer low-angle climbing tracks. The idea is to make the ascent easier for clients, I think. The more gentle your ascent track, the more you have to do "the splits" in a pivot turn. I usually set a steeper track because I think it is faster when you are breaking trail. So the pivot turn works well for me.

In any case, it's interesting to compare different techniques. I don't think either way is right or wrong. In the interest of international harmony, I tried doing more kick turns during our European trip. But I reverted to my old habits as soon as I got home.

Glad to get all this input as my kickturns are even sillier than anything on ministry silly walks.....

Probably 95 % of the time I use a method much like Lowell described. On very steep terrain and particularly with deep snow it may be easier to do a downhill kickturn on occasion. Whether to do an uphill or downhill turn is also dictated by the angle of the turn. If I can go into a turn with an angle of 135-150 degrees or so or less, I'll make an uphill turn. But if the angle of the turn is sharper (the case in deep snow on steep slopes) the downhill turn seems more energy efficient. If the slope isn't too steep (and the snow compressible) I'll cheat a little on the angle of the turn by steepening my ascent on the final stride before the turn so that I don't have to turn as sharply. This can sometimes allow an uphill turn where a downhill turn would otherwise be necessary.

The other thought I have is that the fewer kickturns one needs to make, particularly those with sharp angles, the more efficient the track. A lot of energy is wasted by excessively kickturning.

The best turn of all from an enegy perspective is a simple uphill step around which works best when the turn is made in a lower angle area.
When a turn is made in a steep area more energy is used.