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Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
- Lowell_Skoog
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18 years 1 month ago - 18 years 1 month ago #180295
by Lowell_Skoog
Switchbacks: How do you do 'em? was created by Lowell_Skoog
I've been reading the new "Backcountry Skiing" book by Volken, Schell and Wheeler and I've picked up a number of good tips. But when I got to the section about turning on skins I was surprised that none of the techniques in the book match what I do. I've never thought too much about skinning, since I just learned by doing and I haven't read many instructions about it. I just assumed everybody did the same thing. Not true, apparently.
In the book, the authors describe two styles of kick turns. In the "uphill initiated" turn, the uphill ski is kicked forward and swung around until the tail of the uphill ski is next to, and just uphill of, the downhill foot. The weight is transferred to the uphill foot and the downhill ski is swung around. In the "downhill initiated" turn (recommended for steep terrain or tight quarters) the uphill ski is lifted, moved backward, then swung around and placed below the stationary ski in the new travel direction. To complete the turn, the new uphill ski must be pivoted and slid backward until it can be placed next to the other ski.
My technique is different from both of these. The best name I've been able to think of is the "flick-pivot" turn. It resembles the downhill intiated turn in the book, but I do all the movements in reverse. I also use my poles differently. Here's what I do (illustrated below for a left turn):
The "flick-pivot" turn. Photos by Tom Skoog (age 11).
[hr]
1 - Prepare for the turn by setting the right (lower) ski on a solid platform, a little ahead of the left (upper) ski. Plant the downhill pole firmly, a few inches below the heel of your right foot and directly down the fall-line. Light pressure on the uphill pole provides balance.
2 - Lift the uphill ski and move it backward by bending the left knee. With a freely hinged binding (the only kind I've ever used) the tip will float up, clear of the snow.
3, 4 - Pivot the uphill ski (kicking is not necessary) until it is pointing in the direction you want to go. Set it down and stomp a platform as needed. The tail of the uphill ski should end up close to (and above) the heel of the downhill boot.
5 - Exchange the pole positions. Plant the left pole firmly a few inches below the left foot and directly down the fall-line. Plant the uphill pole above your skis lightly for balance. The position of the left (lower) pole is important to maintain skin grip and balance when you shift your weight to the new downhill ski.
6 - Transfer weight to the left ski and straighten the left leg a bit. Lift the right ski and, if necessary, flick the tip up and away from the snow by straightening the right knee briefly (causing your right heel to bump the ski tail downward).
7, 8 - Pivot the right ski and set it next to the other ski, ready to move in the new direction.
In my experience, this technique works on all snow conditions and slope angles. I use it everywhere. It is effective for deep snow, tight trees, steep slopes, and hard crust.
It's possible that this technique works well for me because I'm tall and have long legs. Position 4 requires you to spread your legs fairly wide to keep from stepping one ski on the other. But I've used this technique with skis that are taller than I am, and hardly anybody uses skis that long anymore. So I don't think the technique is limited to one body type.
On steep and sustained climbs, I adjust my poles to different lengths. (I like to grab the handles rather than choking up on the uphill shaft as many people do.) This requires me to swap poles from one hand to the other at steps 4/5 of the turn. I've got a technique that works pretty well for this, but I didn't show it in the photos above.
Do you do something different?
In the book, the authors describe two styles of kick turns. In the "uphill initiated" turn, the uphill ski is kicked forward and swung around until the tail of the uphill ski is next to, and just uphill of, the downhill foot. The weight is transferred to the uphill foot and the downhill ski is swung around. In the "downhill initiated" turn (recommended for steep terrain or tight quarters) the uphill ski is lifted, moved backward, then swung around and placed below the stationary ski in the new travel direction. To complete the turn, the new uphill ski must be pivoted and slid backward until it can be placed next to the other ski.
My technique is different from both of these. The best name I've been able to think of is the "flick-pivot" turn. It resembles the downhill intiated turn in the book, but I do all the movements in reverse. I also use my poles differently. Here's what I do (illustrated below for a left turn):
The "flick-pivot" turn. Photos by Tom Skoog (age 11).
[hr]
1 - Prepare for the turn by setting the right (lower) ski on a solid platform, a little ahead of the left (upper) ski. Plant the downhill pole firmly, a few inches below the heel of your right foot and directly down the fall-line. Light pressure on the uphill pole provides balance.
2 - Lift the uphill ski and move it backward by bending the left knee. With a freely hinged binding (the only kind I've ever used) the tip will float up, clear of the snow.
3, 4 - Pivot the uphill ski (kicking is not necessary) until it is pointing in the direction you want to go. Set it down and stomp a platform as needed. The tail of the uphill ski should end up close to (and above) the heel of the downhill boot.
5 - Exchange the pole positions. Plant the left pole firmly a few inches below the left foot and directly down the fall-line. Plant the uphill pole above your skis lightly for balance. The position of the left (lower) pole is important to maintain skin grip and balance when you shift your weight to the new downhill ski.
6 - Transfer weight to the left ski and straighten the left leg a bit. Lift the right ski and, if necessary, flick the tip up and away from the snow by straightening the right knee briefly (causing your right heel to bump the ski tail downward).
7, 8 - Pivot the right ski and set it next to the other ski, ready to move in the new direction.
In my experience, this technique works on all snow conditions and slope angles. I use it everywhere. It is effective for deep snow, tight trees, steep slopes, and hard crust.
It's possible that this technique works well for me because I'm tall and have long legs. Position 4 requires you to spread your legs fairly wide to keep from stepping one ski on the other. But I've used this technique with skis that are taller than I am, and hardly anybody uses skis that long anymore. So I don't think the technique is limited to one body type.
On steep and sustained climbs, I adjust my poles to different lengths. (I like to grab the handles rather than choking up on the uphill shaft as many people do.) This requires me to swap poles from one hand to the other at steps 4/5 of the turn. I've got a technique that works pretty well for this, but I didn't show it in the photos above.
Do you do something different?
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- Rainer
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18 years 1 month ago #180296
by Rainer
Replied by Rainer on topic Re: Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
Hi Lowell,
Respectfully, have you ever tried to TELL someone how to walk?...settle on you right hip, leg, and foot...as your right leg takes your full weight (remember that your balance point should be somewhat behind the ball of your right foot) swing your left leg forward leading with the knee while simultaneously swinging your right arm (leading with your hand) forward...
Let's get real here. Moving on skis, bicycles, roller skates, etc. is a CONTINUOUS skill that can't be taught without practice and practical, real-life demonstrations. The difficulty that guide/instruction-book authors face is that they have to say SOMETHING, even if it doesn't agree with your approach. Good grief, I've crossed logs using a forward roll, tucking my skis under me to land on my feet. My Publisher would not sign off on that technique!
So, let's get real. Martin wrote a book on a topic about which most contributors to TAY have a fair amount of practical experience. I think it's fair to say that many of you could have written the book yourselves.
But you didn't. You lacked the interest, courage, generosity, commitment or whatever it takes to Put It Out There, with the noteworthy exception of Alpenglow. Having seen that someone has these qualities you now see fit to nitpick his effort.
Do you seriously think that someone can use instructions such as mine to learn how to walk? Nevermind to learn how to kick turn? Ski instructors can be valuable because you can't learn Continuous Skills out of a book.
Personally, I think that anybody who has the balls to help develop the guiding industry in Washington State, who funds what is essentially a vanity press with his own money deserves nothing but support. As a corollary, if Charles and co. hadn't built this forum with THEIR resources, I'd be grumbling these thoughts into my beer.
Ski report: Symphony Bowl at Whistler was fabulous for first tracks. Raiiner
Respectfully, have you ever tried to TELL someone how to walk?...settle on you right hip, leg, and foot...as your right leg takes your full weight (remember that your balance point should be somewhat behind the ball of your right foot) swing your left leg forward leading with the knee while simultaneously swinging your right arm (leading with your hand) forward...
Let's get real here. Moving on skis, bicycles, roller skates, etc. is a CONTINUOUS skill that can't be taught without practice and practical, real-life demonstrations. The difficulty that guide/instruction-book authors face is that they have to say SOMETHING, even if it doesn't agree with your approach. Good grief, I've crossed logs using a forward roll, tucking my skis under me to land on my feet. My Publisher would not sign off on that technique!
So, let's get real. Martin wrote a book on a topic about which most contributors to TAY have a fair amount of practical experience. I think it's fair to say that many of you could have written the book yourselves.
But you didn't. You lacked the interest, courage, generosity, commitment or whatever it takes to Put It Out There, with the noteworthy exception of Alpenglow. Having seen that someone has these qualities you now see fit to nitpick his effort.
Do you seriously think that someone can use instructions such as mine to learn how to walk? Nevermind to learn how to kick turn? Ski instructors can be valuable because you can't learn Continuous Skills out of a book.
Personally, I think that anybody who has the balls to help develop the guiding industry in Washington State, who funds what is essentially a vanity press with his own money deserves nothing but support. As a corollary, if Charles and co. hadn't built this forum with THEIR resources, I'd be grumbling these thoughts into my beer.
Ski report: Symphony Bowl at Whistler was fabulous for first tracks. Raiiner
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- Lowell_Skoog
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18 years 1 month ago #180297
by Lowell_Skoog
Wow, that's not exactly the response I was expecting. I completely respect the efforts of Martin, Scott and Margaret. I think they've put together a great book. I said so in a previous post in this forum.
One of the benefits of a book like this is that it provides a springboard for further discussion. That's my intention here. I'm an old-time ski instructor and I really enjoy discussing ski technique. I think it would be great if any of the authors (or anybody on TAY) contributed their favorite techniques or pointed out shortcomings with what I described. We'd all learn something. I'm not hooked into the guiding community (which makes me unqualified to write this book) and I'd be interested to hear how guides approach some of these topics.
I honestly think the technique I described may be more efficient than what is described in the book. I could have just kept it to myself as some sort of super-secret technique. But I decided to PUT IT OUT THERE and see if anybody had comments. I appreciate yours and will be happy to hear more.
Thanks Martin, Scott and Margaret for raising the bar!
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
You lacked the interest, courage, generosity, commitment or whatever it takes to Put It Out There, with the noteworthy exception of Alpenglow. Having seen that someone has these qualities you now see fit to nitpick his effort.
Wow, that's not exactly the response I was expecting. I completely respect the efforts of Martin, Scott and Margaret. I think they've put together a great book. I said so in a previous post in this forum.
One of the benefits of a book like this is that it provides a springboard for further discussion. That's my intention here. I'm an old-time ski instructor and I really enjoy discussing ski technique. I think it would be great if any of the authors (or anybody on TAY) contributed their favorite techniques or pointed out shortcomings with what I described. We'd all learn something. I'm not hooked into the guiding community (which makes me unqualified to write this book) and I'd be interested to hear how guides approach some of these topics.
I honestly think the technique I described may be more efficient than what is described in the book. I could have just kept it to myself as some sort of super-secret technique. But I decided to PUT IT OUT THERE and see if anybody had comments. I appreciate yours and will be happy to hear more.
Thanks Martin, Scott and Margaret for raising the bar!
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- savegondor
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18 years 1 month ago #180298
by savegondor
Replied by savegondor on topic Re: Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
Hey man,
whatever works to do the switchback I fully endorse. I would just say, is long as it doesn't exhaust you, it is the right way to do it.
savegondor
whatever works to do the switchback I fully endorse. I would just say, is long as it doesn't exhaust you, it is the right way to do it.
savegondor
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- John Morrow
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18 years 1 month ago #180299
by John Morrow
Replied by John Morrow on topic Re: Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
Sometimes the timing of things is uncanny. While skinning up a slope with some friends yesterday this topic actually came up. They told me they had just bought the book and offered to loan it to me last night before we go and see the Ellensburg presentation. Turns out we have a ski friend who is a client of Martin's and I am sure I remember him saying he was taught this very switchback technique on a guided trip. Why it is not in the book I do not know.
A question, though, Lowell. I see how great this technique would be for AT gear since there is no tension or spring to the toe piece. The tail just immediately hangs. When this client friend of mine showed it to me I found that my tip plunged and got stuck in the slope when I tried the technique while on telemark gear. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the detailed description because since then I kinda forgot the progression and thought that maybe I wasn't doing the steps right, and haven't skied with my friend since last March.
A question, though, Lowell. I see how great this technique would be for AT gear since there is no tension or spring to the toe piece. The tail just immediately hangs. When this client friend of mine showed it to me I found that my tip plunged and got stuck in the slope when I tried the technique while on telemark gear. Any suggestions?
Thanks for the detailed description because since then I kinda forgot the progression and thought that maybe I wasn't doing the steps right, and haven't skied with my friend since last March.
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- Larry_Trotter
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18 years 1 month ago #180300
by Larry_Trotter
Replied by Larry_Trotter on topic Re: Switchbacks: How do you do 'em?
I saw somebody in a video do an about face on skis.... so I put on my skis and practiced the kick turn move in the front yard. But in practice... I found that I had enough traction from my skins that I could just point them straight up and walk my turn. However, it is still nice to practice the move.
So.... what we need are some video of this on various slopes. Crank up the cams.
So.... what we need are some video of this on various slopes. Crank up the cams.
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