Snowmobiles Where They Shouldn't Be- Discussion

Hey it was just a suggestion... I didn't say it was going to solve all problems, if any..<br><br>I supposed until last year I wasn't riding in many areas that bordered too close to the wilderness areas, so it wasn't really a thought of mine, until lately.<br><br>I realize that if your riding in an area that is close to a wilderness boundary that you should get informed so you know where you are at and you can stay out of the wilderness. I just know that a snowmobile can cover a lot of ground in a day so a person could accidentally end up in the wilderness. (Is this an excuse?, No, of course not.) I don't know one snowmobiler (sledder) who would agree that it is OK to ride in the wilderness either.<br><br>It's just that the snowmobile has advanced so far, so quickly, that this is a potential problem that could be happening in some instances, at least that was my thinking. What brought me to this train of thought, was I was riding close to the Alpine lake wilderness and we were riding near the Van Epps pass area, which is technical but rideable terrain with the new sleds made today. I remember looking down at some awesome untracked area and was thinking wouldn't that be fun to ride. Knowing where I was, I look around very hard, tree after tree after tree and finally found 1 sign that said the wilderness was on the other side. The sign was very hidden and weathered and not obvious at all.<br><br>I think signs would help (the less informed) in some instances where there are trees to post them to in popular riding areas. I thought a bright color would help too since the color "white" is not easy to find in the winter time. In the summer it's easy to find these signs cuz you are on a designated trail and you have to pass by the sign before continuing on. Obviously, putting signs in non treed areas or above the tree line won't work, they would just get buried and it's not cost effective to have someone move them.<br><br>As far as the sledders that willing go past the signs stating no snowmobiling, they make me sad. There are a lot of good and honest people who enjoy the outdoors through snowmobiling and all it takes is (1) to ruin it for all. This goes the same for when someone is hiking, biking or anything. If people keep breaking the rules, then eventually no one be able to enjoy it cuz it will be taken away. All you can do is tell someone they are breaking the law, educate them, if they choose to continue to break it, then report them to the proper authorities. I know that is what I would do, if I noticed someone doing that. I'd try to stop it and if that doesn&#8217;t work then call it in.<br><br>I would like to say that 2 sleds can leave behind a lot of tracks, so sometime it may look like a dozen people broke the law when in fact it was just 1 or 2. I know, that doesn't make it any better. Just trying to make a point that most sledders play by the rules and only a few break them.<br><br>Markharf- Thanks for lending an ear. I think that there is plenty of forest for everyone to go and do there own thing and be happy. Although, I ridden on Baker a few times I've not pushed towards the boundaries too much. Can you tell me where people are entering the wilderness at up at Baker? I belong to a different forum and I would be glad to spread the word and try to stop any illegal activity? I don't know if I can accomplish much, but I can try to do my part to keep sledders in the right areas.

Hiker1: <br>You really need to consult a map for the finer details, but here's topozone:<br><br> topozone.com/map.asp?lat=48.7667&lon=-12...um=nad83&layer=DRG25 <br><br>You can see that the recreation area, in which snow machines are legal, extends in a triangle south-ish and southwest-ish from the lower summit, Sherman Peak. The upper Easton Glacier, all of the Deming, the edge of the crater, plus the lower Squak and its meadows, are all illegal. <br><br>I imagine that most sledders up there know this, but I could easily be wrong. If you start asking around about it, I'd be interested in hearing what sorts of responses you get.<br><br>Hope that helps.

markharf-<br>I shall read a map and get back with you. I was aware that the boundary was pie shaped like your map shows. I thought the boundary extended a little further up the mountain to the crater but according to your map it looks like it does not go quite that far.<br><br>You mentioned something about sledders going across into the wilderness on Mt. Baker. Do you have 1 or more areas where you seen this happen? After, I get more educated on the landmarks and other points of reference on Mt Baker I will pass on the information as best as I can.<br><br>Thank you for taking the time that you have and I will get back to you at a later time and let you know what I find out.

Anyone who skis on the south side of Baker in the spring has seen snow machines cross the line into the wilderness. For example, as the map shows, the crater rim is wilderness, and you've probably seen sledders up there. No mystery to this. I'm not up there much, but there are often tracks onto the Deming at least as far as the saddle. In the incident reported here in which a rider was pulled out of a crevasse at 9000 feet, I'd have to wonder whether they were within the (legal) recreation area, which is pretty narrow at that elevation. <br><br>My point, at least at the moment, is not to complain; I'm trying to make the point that violations are routine, not exceptional. <br><br>

This is a topic where the discussion could have easily turned nasty, so everyone is to be commended for keeping it constructive!<br><br>HIKER1, thanks for your perspective as a sledder (is that the right term?) and, especially, your willingness to take this issue of machine violations of Wilderness Areas back to your fellow sledders. Mark's and Larry's last comments point out what may be the most objectionable aspect of all to non-motorized folks, namely the prevalence of Wilderness Area violations. It is hard to believe that all of the violations are due to a "few bad apples" when there is evidence of them virtually every time one comes to a Wilderness boundary.

Great discussion, for the most part. I sense some strong feelings here. As a frequent backcountry skier and snowboarder who occasionally snowmobiles, I appreciate the topozone map showing the boundaries and your clarifications. I'm planning an Easton glacier approach via snowmobiles with skiing above. So... if you see my sleds parked in legal territory, please don't roll 'em down the mountain - I'm up above enjoying a day of skiing with friends.