TR Replies
Looks like the Dutchess led you pilgrums directly to the goods. Way to go, Dorothea.
Great report, Justin. Thanks.
I was just wondering this last weekend what conditions were like on St Helens. We like to catch it each year before the snow's all gone at Marblemount.
So how deep was the snow at the parking lot?
I was just wondering this last weekend what conditions were like on St Helens. We like to catch it each year before the snow's all gone at Marblemount.
So how deep was the snow at the parking lot?
Great job Phil - thanks for putting all of the photos in the TR, it really brings the trip alive.
Sounds like it was a great time. I'm also happy that you saw the same things as I did in a snow pit. I'm still relatively new at it so it's reassuring when your findings get supported by others. Snow interpretation seems like part science & part witchcraft. ;D
Forgot to mention this trip was led by "The Duchess"
AKA Dorothea.
AKA Dorothea.
thanks, zap, for the report. I almost pulled the trigger this year on a trip here to try single ride/bc touring but snow/avy was better elsewhere. So maybe next year.
Sorry Corey, no photos exist . . . I realized near Puyallup that I had forgotten my digicam at home, way too late to turn around and get it. First time that's happened, a real bummer, especially because the last time I skied in that area was in early 1997, also without a camera. So I may have to head up to Van Trump again this spring, just to get some good shots.
Skinut, how were snow conditions near Cowlitz Rocks?
Skinut, how were snow conditions near Cowlitz Rocks?
We saw you starting up the trail as we were driving by to ski to Cowlitz Rocks. You are animals! :D
We skied past there today and saw the crown. It's a little weathered, but still very evident.
Went up Granite, then skied off the north side & traversed back west to hit the pass between Granite & W. Granite. Then traversed SW around the hill to eventually hit the Ollalie Lake trail at 3K. Just a day exploring since the ski conditions sucked. Lack of sun kept most of the mountain from corning up, just frozen wind, sun crust.
Went up Granite, then skied off the north side & traversed back west to hit the pass between Granite & W. Granite. Then traversed SW around the hill to eventually hit the Ollalie Lake trail at 3K. Just a day exploring since the ski conditions sucked. Lack of sun kept most of the mountain from corning up, just frozen wind, sun crust.
Not only that, Sky, but FREE HEELS! (What's my Mom going to say about this?)
Surly and stubborn is my kinda guy. no problem abotu him sending them to me.if he gives me the OK I'll just lift them from here.
Thanks
Thanks
Two planks, eh guy? That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!
Much better said than I could have done - thanks! Also a way to have a little more fun than just sideslipping when your descent is a long traverse.
I forgot to add that this trip was the first real test of my new waxless skis (Outtabounds) in the conditions for which they are best suited - spring snow - and again I was impressed with their performance. I know that people generally characterize these skis as not being as good climbers as other current generation waxless skis, like those fr...
I forgot to add that this trip was the first real test of my new waxless skis (Outtabounds) in the conditions for which they are best suited - spring snow - and again I was impressed with their performance. I know that people generally characterize these skis as not being as good climbers as other current generation waxless skis, like those fr...
Nice report! How about a photo?
I know you've got one.... ;)
I know you've got one.... ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a garland is ski-instructor speak for a turn where you initiate the turn one way and then wash it out with a side slip the other way, leaving a track that looks like a garland on a christmas tree. A useful survival skiing technique, and a way for learners to practice turn initiation without crossing the fall line (and thus limiting acceleration).
I'll check with Andy about getting you those images. Although he's an intermediate student, and therefore might be a bit surly and stubborn. ;D When do you need them?
"Under sixteen hours," you say?
Yeah, we didn't really stop for more than maybe an hour and a half total all day.
Nice photos and video Sam. That area sure is beautiful isn't it? One of the nicest around I think. We wanted to ski that line on Klawatti last spring when we were up there, but it had already melted out. Looks like you got it good.
Great report, Charles.
What's a garland?
What's a garland?
Just now getting back. I'm glad parties in both spots made it back safer and wiser.
A Pound, I'd Like to use the photos in mountaineers avy class if I could. They are both great examples of wind loading around a ridge.
A Pound, I'd Like to use the photos in mountaineers avy class if I could. They are both great examples of wind loading around a ridge.
"Under sixteen hours," you say? Nice going. Great photos & video, too.
Snowpack too thin for Bernard's Boulders.
As it was I was stopped very suddenly by a buried rock on lower Steepness. Put a ski tip to my forehead. A little bloody.
As it was I was stopped very suddenly by a buried rock on lower Steepness. Put a ski tip to my forehead. A little bloody.
We did not dig pits. There was an inch crust and you could pole down a couple feet to the hard layer.
I had followed the avy reports that week and yes, I did monitor the telemetry reports and noted the extremely high winds.
I knew the east slopes were loaded, but the party discussed a west descent, which was wind blown of course, and we concluded the top of the east slope wasn't as wind deposited because of the tree barrier along the ridge.
Hindsight, we should not have ski...
I had followed the avy reports that week and yes, I did monitor the telemetry reports and noted the extremely high winds.
I knew the east slopes were loaded, but the party discussed a west descent, which was wind blown of course, and we concluded the top of the east slope wasn't as wind deposited because of the tree barrier along the ridge.
Hindsight, we should not have ski...
At the great risk of eliminating myself from ever enjoy ing turns with either the Granite West or Heather Ridge party members. Didn't any of you in either party access the previous days(Friday ) telemetry? Yes, both Both places were the nearly the same Aspect and elevation. Both places also had good nearby sheltered tree skiing. The pictures are are great examples of side loading on a ridges.Both Stevens and Snoqualomie (70mph)had heavy winds on Friday.
Good call. I suspect the road's already cleared past where you would have come out. Would have been a walk out to CM Blvd.
We went about 1/2 way down Kempers and skinned back up so I don't know what it is like at the bottom. There was good coverage to where we stopped, but below I could see that it was not as filled in as I have seen it in the past. Generally it's not been a great year for low elevation snow as I found out two weekends ago doing a circumnavagation of Mt Thompson.
James I am curious to find out how snow conditions were below Kempers? Did you have to negotiate any sketchy terrain to get back to 410?
Stevens Pass had it's own "whoomps" but they were from this huge Car Toys tractor trailer full of subwoofers.
New theory: Subwoofer induced slope instability? 8)
This was the same aspect and near the same elevation as the remotely triggered slide at Heather Ridge. Randojohn - did your party dig any pits? Any thing else you can tell us about the snowpack? Any other whoomphs during the day?
The three previous photos are courtesy of Andy Pound, who lived to tell the tale.
A closer, "oh, my God, what were we doing on that slope" view.
Our party was skiing just right of the trees, above the slide when we heard, and felt, a loud whoomph! The slide is on an SE facing slope. We skied the ridge to the left out.
A classic windloaded slope as you see the somewhat scoured ridge.
A classic windloaded slope as you see the somewhat scoured ridge.
So now you know why you had it all to yourselves.
This is making my $47 tab at the lifts across Hwy 2 seem more worthwhile. I was really tempted to head up and over there, but...
Stevens Pass had it's own "whoomps" but they were from this huge Car Toys tractor trailer full of subwoofers. Not exactly a wilderness experience, but a beautiful day with great powder in the trees and windpacked on the open.
This is making my $47 tab at the lifts across Hwy 2 seem more worthwhile. I was really tempted to head up and over there, but...
Stevens Pass had it's own "whoomps" but they were from this huge Car Toys tractor trailer full of subwoofers. Not exactly a wilderness experience, but a beautiful day with great powder in the trees and windpacked on the open.
Thanks for sharing your thought processes openly, guys! This is good reading material.
I'm reminded of comments I heard many years back in Avy Level I training about group dynamics (e.g. make your own calls, pay attention to the worriers in the group, that sort of stuff), as well as about paying attention to all the factors (including whoomphing in particular - something they mentioned much more strongly in my CO class than in the one I took with Gary Brill not far from where you guys we...
I'm reminded of comments I heard many years back in Avy Level I training about group dynamics (e.g. make your own calls, pay attention to the worriers in the group, that sort of stuff), as well as about paying attention to all the factors (including whoomphing in particular - something they mentioned much more strongly in my CO class than in the one I took with Gary Brill not far from where you guys we...
Matt:
Yes, you are thinking of the correct place.
As far as solar heating affecting stability...that's highly likely. We did have a few sunbreaks on and off throughout the day.
This has all been very good discussion.
Yes, you are thinking of the correct place.
As far as solar heating affecting stability...that's highly likely. We did have a few sunbreaks on and off throughout the day.
This has all been very good discussion.
Where exactly is Moonlight Bowl? Is this the sparsely treed bowl just east of the pass and above the highway across from Yodelin? The lower reaches above the flat PCT are cloaked with slide alder and dense forest?
What was the weather like? If this is the bowl I am thinking of, that area will tend to get heated in the slightest sunbreak of which there were a few Saturday near Snoqualmie Pass. I'm wondering if slight daytime heating consolidated the new snow into a...
What was the weather like? If this is the bowl I am thinking of, that area will tend to get heated in the slightest sunbreak of which there were a few Saturday near Snoqualmie Pass. I'm wondering if slight daytime heating consolidated the new snow into a...
most of my close calls with avalanches can be traced to faulty decision making. this time i think it was because i had dug a pit that i was overconfident about the slopes stability, as i couldn't see anything in the layers or consistency of the snow to scare me. while it might be convenient to say i was "skinning under the influence of avaiusini" i have to admit i was the author of the ski area avy control bomb theory. i guess that kind of settlement is somethi...
We skied the south slope, then into moonlight bowl and skied the far skiers right of the bowl, that starts in the trees (not quite yet in the full open, but fairly steep at the start). Then we did the run with the slide, and then two more runs from where the trees start to get denser and the slope flattens to 20 degrees or so (about 400-500ft below the ridge top) down to near the PCT.
The conversations in our group were interesting, and there was definite disagreement on assumption...
The conversations in our group were interesting, and there was definite disagreement on assumption...
Juan:
You are correct in your assumption. The upper portion of the bowl, below the ridge (in a slight depression) is where the slide occurred. Phil and Greg both took photos, maybe they can post one here...
Other than the one attempt to climb back to the ridge, we made all our turns on the lower angle gladed stuff and felt pretty good about that.
Fooman:
Our choice to ski there was a calculated risk and we were pretty aware of the conditions as well as the avy forecast. Over t...
You are correct in your assumption. The upper portion of the bowl, below the ridge (in a slight depression) is where the slide occurred. Phil and Greg both took photos, maybe they can post one here...
Other than the one attempt to climb back to the ridge, we made all our turns on the lower angle gladed stuff and felt pretty good about that.
Fooman:
Our choice to ski there was a calculated risk and we were pretty aware of the conditions as well as the avy forecast. Over t...
there are definitely some lower angle lines in moonlight bowl. my main concern would be on some of the steeper sections directly below the ridge...these are more or less unavoidable if you ski off the top. i ski there often, and based on what i was seeing in the trees there on friday, i would have avoided moonlight bowl altogether probably. glad you guys had a good day though and it all worked out.
Huh, that's interesting.
So you were skinning up on a day that was already forecast to be dicey, experienced frequent whoomps and a sizeable slide triggered by your presence but still got in 4000 feet?
You said yourself it was the sketchiest day you'd seen this season.
Where do you draw the line? Whoomping is definitely when I turn back after having a similar experience but without enough volume to be really dangerous.
Would you have been surprised if you ha...
Great information. I don't think the snowpack was quite as bad up at the Baker backcountry (Sat). My stepson and I heard a few whoomps on some wind loaded areas heading up to the saddle. We stuck to the trees heading south from Hermann Saddle and found fairly good skiing. Tim and friends dug a pit and skied the Core shoot gully. There was quite a bit of new snow but it was definately safe to ski on the south facing slopes in the trees. Yesterday's warm temp a...
Conditions yesterday were some of the sketchiest I've been out in this year. I wasn't going to bother reporting this, since the rain today will change everything - but we experienced extensive whoomphing on the south and east aspects we were on, and someone in our party remotely triggered a slab (about 100 feet away) with a 2-3 foot crown, which ran about 500 vertical feet - helped along by a second slab lower down the slope, which the weigh of the first presumably triggered.
But we foun...
But we foun...
Guess I was wrong, there was someone here crazy enough to ski the BC this weekend.
OT: So this is my first year interpreting forecasts--Are we looking at some corn skiing this week? Will "partly cloudy" be enough to soften things up?
OT: So this is my first year interpreting forecasts--Are we looking at some corn skiing this week? Will "partly cloudy" be enough to soften things up?