Cedar Creek Drainage

Manson preached love too... maybe even the beauty of art... it don't mean much sometimes.
I'll procure my avalanche education elsewhere thank you very much. Got no use for that self righteous tone.

You do make some good points. I'll be there when you're fighting the good fight. But not when you're beatin' the drum into the ground.



Mike Cheney: I think we all make mistakes sometime.

Mike..

I think it was pretty awesome that the clients where skilled enough for a successful recovery. Guiding is a dangerous job with a lot of responsibility, for little $$$. Work or play in a dynamic environment, eventually something will go wrong. So glad it was just a harsh learning experience. This would be the guide I would think would be the safest to get out with now. Fresh off a full burial, he'll be on his game.

But how did you "know" it was going to be unstable months away? NWAC only can predict two days out. The layer everything is happening on didn't occur until Valentine's day. Even then, it's just highly considerable. Not judging anyone, but still plenty of safe fun riding to be had. Except for this rain thing.. overall been pretty darn good this winter.

Thanks, you stay safe too.

Well said Ale! Part of the reason to hire a guide is to have them go first, especially when skiing potentially high risk terrain. And, relying on client rescue (initially) is also factored into the calculus. Freeski likes to insinuate that there is a coverup regarding the risk of heli skiing and guided skiing in general, but if you read their liability waiver forms, there is no whitewashing of risk. It's also worth noting that they (NCH and NCMG) have a terrific safety record, over a long operating history. The folks that own and work at these operations are Valley locals, who as far as I can tell (largely based on the jalopy sleds they use), aren't millionaires. They're doing it for the love of the mountains, and probably the love of sharing the experience as well. Not sure how they earned Freeski's enmity, but I'm guessing it has something to do with ignoring all of his "free advice" over the years.

You may want to re-think your pov and how bias plays a role in people's reasoning.

if you want to debate, fine, but use your intellect to debate the points and not to personally attack the person making those points.

You are the one stating that clients hire guides simply to pump up their egos on their facebook pages.

Maybe some of them do, just as certainly that many of them have a whole slew of other reasons for hiring a guide. For you to reduce the motivation of all guided clients down to pumping up their egos on their facebook pages is insulting... you are personally attacking all clients who hire a guide.

There's a lot of that tonality in your writings... and if your stated goal is to communicate avalanche safety, pissing off whole communities of backcountry users is not serving your purpose very well.

Maybe you don't even realize you are doing this...


As for bias playing a role in people's reasoning (in regards to safely navigating avalanche terrain), I completely agree. I never disagreed.

I think you totally misunderstood my comment, hopefully this one clears it up.


as for -

i gave your first attack some consideration in the hope that it would help, guess not.

You guessed right.

If

dude- you're cracking me up. my friends too i'm sure.
ho ho ho he he ha ha ha, see how the run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly, i'm crying

is your idea of a considered response, there's really no need for further discussion.


_____________

Thank you Scott for your well considered response.
I too admired that the clients were skilled enough for a successful recovery.

However, not sure though that all of the near-misses are on the public record and let's not forget, a friend of mine, could have been killed last year when an ncmg guide/owner, doing avy control work with a client, ski cut an avy down on my friend.

my friend insisted that report be filed.

but i'm not talking specifically about those companies. the industry safety record as a whole is poor and in the case of that recent eastern oregon accident,  multiple deaths and injuries in the same avy.

A couple questions if you don't mind, why was your friend hanging out in a slide path and was he visible to the guide above him? Have you ever done a ski cut in the bc?

"that recent eastern oregon accident", do you mean the Cornucopia Peak avalanche with the guided group from WAH? The fatalities and burials occurred because some of the guests didn't follow the lead guide's directions if I recall.

And you think ego doesn't drive that nonsense? And it pisses you off when i mention it does.? Wow. 

I'm saying that your bias is effecting your posts.

I have no interest in being trolled. You keep putting words in my mouth and ascribing emotions that I simply do not feel. And then insinuating that I have a bias.

I've got no horse in this race.  I've never hired a guide and I'm not on Facebook. I've never said that ego and bias have no role in decision making.  And yet you keep insisting that I do.

The only point I'm making (from my first post to this one) is that it is bizarre to me that you continually alienate whole groups of backcountry travelers while stating that your goal is to communicate avalanche safety.

Seems to me you and your message would be a lot more effective if you win people over instead of alienating them.


I get that's not something you want to hear, so go ahead and make up whatever strawman diversions you want and have at it...
I'm outta here.