Cedar Creek Drainage

I'm outta here.

well, almost

I shouldn't really need to be explaining this since in this day and age anyone can quickly type "Charlie Manson Beatles" in their search engine and get a quick rundown, but you seemed genuinely confused so...

in regards to my "like Charlie Manson" reply to your "...ho ho ho he he ha ha ha, see how the run like pigs from a gun..." comment, it's the first thing that flashed across my mind when I read your response. Charlie was infamous for quoting Beatles lyrics to suit his own ends.
Knee Jerk Americana... sorry, you walked right into that one. Good to know your history as you like to say.



apologies Mike, for thread deflection

The above comments on guides in avalanche terrain remind me of a story from John Roskelley's Stories Off The Wall regarding his friend Kim Momb, who was one of the first to successfully ascend the Kangshung Face on Everest, and who Roskelley had a huge amount of respect for, as a climber and as a person.

"Kim Momb worked as a heli-ski guide during the winter months in the Interior Ranges of British Columbia. The Interior Ranges had a lot of snow that year--more than usual. But what bothered me was a recent change in the weather. It was warm and drizzling. The current weather and the preceeding weeks of snow accumulation matched the conditions several years earlier when Willi Unsoeld was buried by an avalanche and killed on Mount Rainier.

As Momb and I walked in the rain toward our cars, I said good-bye. 'Give me a call next time you're in town, Kim. And be careful. Avalanche conditions should be terrible this week.'

Momb died two days later. He and two clients, one who also died, were swept into the trees by a slab avalanche while skiing a remote mountain slope in British Columbia."

Guides aren't perfect, and can exercise bad judgment just like anyone else. It's up to the individual to be educated and make the go/no go call for themselves based on the available evidence.

And these discussions would be a lot more valuable if people on this site refrained from engaging in pissing matches and personal attacks, and stuck to the relevant facts.

1st of all I wrote this late at night (2am+ AKST) after reading the NWAC accident reports from 5 Feb to 5 March... late at night - somewhat reacting to what I read. I wasn't trying to call anyone or organization out ... really I was fishing for information...

Mike..

I think it was pretty awesome that the clients where skilled enough for a successful recovery.  Guiding is a dangerous job with a lot of responsibility, for little $$$. Work or play in a dynamic environment, eventually something will go wrong. So glad it was just a harsh learning experience. This would be the guide I would think would be the safest to get out with now. Fresh off a full burial, he'll be on his game.

But how did you "know" it was going to be unstable months away? NWAC only can predict two days out.  The layer everything is happening on didn't occur until Valentine's day. Even then, it's just highly considerable. Not judging anyone, but still plenty of safe fun riding to be had. Except for this rain thing.. overall been pretty darn good this winter.

Thanks, you stay safe too.

I have had some guide experience from NCMG... I have a lot of respect for them... They are great guides and have taught some of my friends lots of skills and taken them on tours they are pretty happy with. I think it's great that the clients had the skills to do a rescue - could very well be that they taught the rescuers Avy 1+

As far as me "...know..." ing about this season. I didn't... nobody knows the future. My crystal ball is foggy.

In an unscientific manner I viewed the way the snow came down this year... maritime snow over continental then crusts then more continental then maritime, upside down, right side up, at times... then I started focusing on other plans that would take me out of the area. I've been fortunate to ride out of the area a lot the prior 3 winters... I get back in the spring and notice things about who's touring where, I notice things about people that I've been touring with...

Imho it seems like there are way more people in the last 5 years headed out relying on airbags & magic boxes, with the supposition that gear will save them and less analyzing the terrain and conditions in the moment...

I don't want to be caught in a slide triggered by people like this (it happened in-bounds in the S back at Crystal to a friend last year - people didn't even notice what they did - they buried him)... I really don't want to trigger a slide on anyone else, ever.

Guides aren't perfect, and can exercise bad judgment just like anyone else.  It's up to the individual to be educated and make the go/no go call for themselves based on the available evidence.

And these discussions would be a lot more valuable if people on this site refrained from engaging in pissing matches and personal attacks, and stuck to the relevant facts.

I like the story Eric relayed - it's totally applicable to this situation.

I also like what I quoted from Eric above... total truth... that's it.