February 22, 2014, Chair Peak Large Avalanche

Should they be coddled and given stars?

I don't think anyone has suggested coddling or handing out stars.  Rather, it is a question of whether we should give people the benefit of the doubt or assume the worst when we discuss an event for which we don't know the facts.

For what it's worth, it looks like many folks have been caught unexpectedly by slides from above their position.  See the NWAC Observation on February 24 for another example.  If this was also the case for the 2/22 event perhaps it's more forgivable than we might otherwise assume.

However, to directly answer your question...  I guess the degree to which we make this a comfortable place for the 2/22 event skiers to tell their story depends on how badly we want to get more information.  I am willing to defer judgement to the extent that it results in more information that we can all use to make sound backcountry decisions.

jj, perhaps you are desiring more information than you need to calculate into your decision matrix during and immediately large snow events.  Following the past weeks' weather cycle one could clearly see that there was:

- A boatload of snow over the past week or so, and
- Much of that snow was delivered with wind, and
- The terrain is relatively steep, and
- Bonding of layers deep in the snowpack has been suspect for much of the winter.

This information is primarily non-scientific, area-wide, and can generate a go/no-go decision, or a choice to ski less threatening terrain.

I would suggest that this forum should be an area for all backcountry enthusiasts to learn as much as possible about avalanche events. If it is going to be a rant session then so be it. Personally, and professionally as an AIARE instructor, I would like everyone to post the details of events and near misses without others making comments as to the soundness of their decisions. Read the article below.

sportgevity.com/article/changing-culture-shame-0

If we take a systems error approach to analyzing events we will have a setting where more knowledge and incite will be gained. I have been guilty of making quick judgement in the past and I have recently come to the understanding that many of us have had the experience of making poor decisions. My poor decisions would certainly have seemed foolhardy to others in hindsight. Nobody wants to be embarrassed publicly or called out as being stupid. We are engaged in an activity that is potentially quite harmful. The risks can never be reduced to nil. However, lets try and learn as much as possible about events so our collective knowledge for ALL backcountry users is improved.

Here is a link to an excellent post that discusses this issue surrounding events in BC.

www.backcountrybc.org/2013_12_25_archive.html

Gregg Cronn

Of course they visit this site, one of them posted in yardsale and random tracks about their splitter and pair skis they lost in the slide.

... If this was also the case for the 2/23 event perhaps it's more forgivable than we might otherwise assume.

However, to directly answer your question...  I guess the degree to which we make this a comfortable place for the 2/23 event skiers to tell their story depends on how badly we want to get more information....

Was there an avalanche at Chair on 2/22 and 2/23?

I would suggest that this forum should be an area for all backcountry enthusiasts to learn as much as possible about avalanche events.  If it is going to be a rant session then so be it.  Personally, and professionally as an AIARE instructor, I would like everyone to post the details of events and near misses without others making comments as to the soundness of their decisions.  Read the article below.

sportgevity.com/article/changing-culture-shame-0

If we take a systems error approach to analyzing events we will have a setting where more knowledge and incite will be gained.  I have been guilty of making quick judgement in the past and I have recently come to the understanding that many of us have had the experience of making poor decisions.  My poor decisions would certainly have seemed foolhardy to others in hindsight.  Nobody wants to be embarrassed publicly or called out as being stupid.  We are engaged in an activity that is potentially quite harmful.  The risks can never be reduced to nil.  However, lets try and learn as much as possible about events so our collective knowledge for ALL backcountry users is improved.

Here is a link to an excellent post that discusses this issue surrounding events in BC. 

www.backcountrybc.org/2013_12_25_archive.html

Gregg Cronn

Thank you bro. This is the real reason this community exists. Not to use strongly worded posts that say "WTF were you thinking?".

I have a regular post on my Team's Facebook page on Friday's called "Come Back for Another Day" and deeply believe that is "right" perspective for me and the folks I climb with (primarily my son) to have. I started in 1984 and want to keep comin back until the day I die from something other than an avy.

My post from this past Friday was simply "a lot of new snow, high avy warning by NWAC, good weekend to be smart". I was also out on Friday in the Alpy BC so felt like I had a good feeling for the snow. That does not mean though that I felt "safe".

So heading up a short way in less then 20-25 degree slopes was within my danger spectrum. Climbing higher, or under cornices or onto steep terrain was not. My son jumping off a cliff was not steep terrain per se. LOL.