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Higher Elevation slab?

  • Joedabaker
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13 years 8 months ago #105531 by Joedabaker
Higher Elevation slab? was created by Joedabaker
Just throwing this out there since the 7000ft and below snow pack seems to have drained to the base by now if there are any thoughts on the slopes reacting on the higher elevations as the warmer snow levels advance their way up to 10 or 11,000 ft. IE...draining down to an ice lens or weak layer from the winter and having large scale failure of the snowpack.
Beside the prerequisite dangers of false bridging on crevasses, rock fall and cornice collapses, does anyone feel there is potential snowpack failure on weak layers and some large scale action as the higher elevation snowpack evolves or should I say dissolves in areas like the Inter Glacier or Frying Pan Glacier?
I have seen some pretty ice glazed slopes over there from Crystal during the ski season.

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  • ron j
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13 years 8 months ago #105543 by ron j
Replied by ron j on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?

I think that is worth serious consideration, Joe.
I was just thinking this last week that I may just dig a few pits in search of those types of layers before I retire my avy gear for the summer/fall corn season.

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  • garyabrill
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13 years 8 months ago #105645 by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
Not sure about that, Joe, but here comes another foot or more of new snow down to 5000-5500'....

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  • Joedabaker
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13 years 8 months ago #105674 by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?

Not sure about that, Joe, but here comes another foot or more of new snow down to 5000-5500'....


Well I'm not sure either, but the possibility does seem applicable given that higher elevations tend to progress into the spring season later than lower elevations. What helps the snowpack is that it is higher and the potential for refreeze is much better than lower elevations that remain warmer. Thus slowing the progression of meltwater.
I saw recent pictures of Shasta in a trip report where there is a huge hangfire on it's face. Not sure if that is a result of what I'm talking about since there is more warming on southern volcanoes and a better chance of percolation. I would assume hypothetically the possibility exists. Unless of course you can explain why it would not?

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  • Amar Andalkar
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13 years 8 months ago - 13 years 8 months ago #105685 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?

I saw recent pictures of Shasta in a trip report where there is a huge hangfire on it's face.


I just skied from the summit of Shasta last week, and drove around taking high-res photos of several other aspects. If by "huge hangfire" you mean a large avalanche crown, I saw no such thing anywhere on the south, SW, west, NW, or north aspects of Shasta right now. All recent TRs which I have seen have come from routes on those aspects. Can you link to the specific TR or photo?

However, the large semicircular bergschrund which spans the top of the Bolam Glacier on the north side of Shasta is often mistaken for an avalanche crown. I wouldn't be surprised if that is in the photo you saw.

Over the years, I've found that the majority of distant-view reports of large avalanche crowns on the Cascade volcanoes were actually bergschrunds being mistaken for crowns. The report in mid-May of a large crown spanning the entire width of the Park Headwall on Mount Baker practically screamed out "bergschrund!" instead of avy crown, as the person posting the report posted no photos of the "crown", and a large bergschrund spans that entire face. Perhaps there was in fact a crown and not simply the bergschrund opening up across the entire Park Glacier face due to 4 days of intense heat, but without high-res photos, the safest and most likely conclusion would be that it was the bergschrund being mistaken for a crown. If someone does have photos of a crown spanning the entire Park Headwall in mid-May, please post them, I want to learn more about any such event.

I'm referring to this post:

I was skiing all over the Mt. Baker Ski Area yesterday (5/15) and got a great view of Mt. Baker and the Park Glacier.  Last Friday (5/11) I saw the great tracks down the Park; yesterday I saw a huge crown across the entire Park headwall and assume the entire thing had ripped over the weekend or on Monday.

Similar aspects further around towards the Boulder Glacier showed large crowns also.

"The heat is on..."

which was also quoted in the Weekend Avy Forecast thread.

I observed no avalanche activity or instability of any kind at high elevations on Mount Rainier that weekend (see my May 12-13 TR ), and I would expect that elevations above 9-10K on Baker were similarly unaffected by the heat, so a massive slide (and multiple other large slides) would be shocking. During those sudden spring heat waves, my own experience has shown that the avy-safest places in the entire Cascades are usually at high elevations on the volcanoes, since that is where the degree of warming is the least and where temps barely rise above freezing, even when it is suddenly 60 F at Snoqualmie or wherever, and everything in sight there is wet-sliding.

Last edit: 13 years 8 months ago by Amar Andalkar.

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  • T. Eastman
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13 years 8 months ago #105687 by T. Eastman
Replied by T. Eastman on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
Amar, I know what I saw and I frequently observe that side of Baker. I also know about the bergshrund and considered that in my note. Others beside you are capable of making astute observations...

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