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Higher Elevation slab?

  • Amar Andalkar
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13 years 8 months ago #105691 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?

Others beside you are capable of making astute observations...


Well, as usual, it's hard to comment or even ask for clarification about anything online without offending someone, and then getting a snippy response. I'm sorry if my comments and request for photos of what sounds like a very exceptional avalanche offended you, that was not my intent. Would like to see photos even more if it was definitely an avy crown. That Park Glacier bergschrund is definitely among the ones most commonly mistaken by many for an avy crown, though.

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  • garyabrill
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13 years 8 months ago #105694 by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
All I'm really saying, Joe, is that after mid-May or so, I usually don't worry about deep instabilities since they would be hard to trigger and you would never really know, anyway. So, I worry about recent snow and natural sluffs especially in gullies and glide avalanches off rock slabs. The latter two types of naturals are the only ones by this time of year that seem to be probable enough to be a concern. Otherwise, I would obviously be careful around cornices (especially above them). I'm also careful when there is much exposed rock since snow comes off rocks (as do rocks!). Rocky areas are also problematic as far as the effect on warming the snowpack with the potential for deeper slides.

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  • Joedabaker
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13 years 8 months ago #105698 by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
You are probably right Amar it is a bergshrung. I used the word hangfire because it looked as though something more may bust off that sucker.
Gary thanks for the response. I to was thinking that it does need a trigger after i posted the reply. But great follow up.
It is strange to me that there is more attention at lower elevations than at higher when it comes to spring depth failures.

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  • Joedabaker
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13 years 8 months ago #105699 by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
And also the reason I ask is that I can never learn enough about snowpack.
I've seen things that I would have never predicted.

And I rarely climb or ski above 10,000 ft so I have no history, just a lot of assumptions.

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  • CookieMonster
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13 years 8 months ago #105714 by CookieMonster
Replied by CookieMonster on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?
To answer your original question, yes it's possible to encounter leftover weaknesses in the snowpack at any elevation where snowpack is found.

I think your question is a bit more specific, as in "do these weaknesses exist right now". I'd say, yes, you could probably find patches of weak snow buried in the high elevation snowpack at certain aspects and elevations in the Cascades, and you can probably trigger avalanches. Is this an exceptional year for such weaknesses? I'd say no, at least not from what I've seen and heard. However, like you, I've observed enormous patches of shiny surface snow on the east side of Rainier, and I have wondered about it. That information would certainly lead me to be cautious were I to travel in that area.

Finally, whether or not any weaknesses are widespread is a bit moot in my opinion because it doesn't take a very large area of weakness to produce an avalanche capable of injuring, burying, or killing a skier, especially in certain situations like "small avalanche + crevasses nearby".

1. Protocol doesn't change. If you suspect weaknesses, get out your shovel and dig.
2. If you find weaknesses, adjust your travel plans and expectations accordingly.
3. Make conservative decisions if you are uncertain about the distribution and parameters of weaknesses.

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  • avajane
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13 years 7 months ago #106814 by avajane
Replied by avajane on topic Re: Higher Elevation slab?

Just throwing this out there since the 7000ft and below snow pack seems to have drained to the base by now if there are any thoughts on the slopes reacting on the higher elevations as the warmer snow levels advance their way up to 10 or 11,000 ft.  IE...draining down to an ice lens or weak layer from the winter and having large scale failure of the snowpack.
Beside the prerequisite dangers of false bridging on crevasses, rock fall and cornice collapses, does anyone feel there is potential snowpack failure on weak layers and some large scale action as the higher elevation snowpack evolves or should I say dissolves in areas like the Inter Glacier or Frying Pan Glacier?
I have seen some pretty ice glazed slopes over there from Crystal during the ski season.


I think that this year that is a concern. I know that up north in Whistler they get "grounders" often after the ski area closes in big snow years.. I've seen pictures of huge slides going full slope on Sudans as well as Flute and all the way to Lesser Flute. These areas are in the 6,000 - 7,000' range and will fail after a spell of really warm days. I'm thinking that being careful during the next few hot spells would be a good thing... I will not be camping out at the bottom of a steep slope in the late afternoon on a hot day.

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