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AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
- Rainypm
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7 years 11 months ago #231162
by Rainypm
Replied by Rainypm on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
I used my touring set up (maestrale rs/dynafit/G3 tonics) both in-bounds and back-country for several years.
While I found it worked just fine, I noticed it was more of who I was skiing with that mattered.
If I was with my back-country friends then the touring set up was just fine in-bounds. However if I was skiing with my resort friends, I just didn't feel as comfortable skiing as hard/fast as the group with resort set-up.
So I put together a set up for in-bounds. I use the same boots as my fit is really dialed in. I went with Marker Griffon ID binding(compatible with touring soles) and picked up some Blizzard Bonafide's.
For myself I have found the resort set up is better suited for what the resort has to offer, whether groomers, tight trees, short stashes and skiing laps.
In the back-country, I find I want to enjoy the effort I worked for, so I tend to ski slower and enjoy the ride.
While I found it worked just fine, I noticed it was more of who I was skiing with that mattered.
If I was with my back-country friends then the touring set up was just fine in-bounds. However if I was skiing with my resort friends, I just didn't feel as comfortable skiing as hard/fast as the group with resort set-up.
So I put together a set up for in-bounds. I use the same boots as my fit is really dialed in. I went with Marker Griffon ID binding(compatible with touring soles) and picked up some Blizzard Bonafide's.
For myself I have found the resort set up is better suited for what the resort has to offer, whether groomers, tight trees, short stashes and skiing laps.
In the back-country, I find I want to enjoy the effort I worked for, so I tend to ski slower and enjoy the ride.
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- DG
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7 years 11 months ago - 7 years 11 months ago #231163
by DG
Replied by DG on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
My experience has been very similar to RainyPM.
Since there is no real weight penalty with resort skiing, if you do it enough, it makes sense to ski with a different set up that can be heavier to handle different conditions.
I know that everyone's preferences are different, but I couldn't imagine skiing only backcountry. Lift skiing on a storm day is just so much fun, and being able to ski aggressively inbounds is a different experience to me then the cautious approach required for backcountry skiing. By the same token, I wouldn't want to be restricted to what's lift-served since there is so much more around here that is only accessible with touring gear.
Since there is no real weight penalty with resort skiing, if you do it enough, it makes sense to ski with a different set up that can be heavier to handle different conditions.
I know that everyone's preferences are different, but I couldn't imagine skiing only backcountry. Lift skiing on a storm day is just so much fun, and being able to ski aggressively inbounds is a different experience to me then the cautious approach required for backcountry skiing. By the same token, I wouldn't want to be restricted to what's lift-served since there is so much more around here that is only accessible with touring gear.
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- Kiddch
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7 years 11 months ago #231171
by Kiddch
Replied by Kiddch on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
As an East Coast guy I've found that hardpack and ice don't play well with tech bindings (in my case Dynafit Radical FT). Fortunately for me the K2 Marksman/Dynafit Radical setup was purchased as a lighter weight touring setup for West Coast/Backcountry trips. My previous entry into the touring world was an AT setup consisting of Nordica El Capo with Marker Baron frame bindings. This is what I use for in bounds resort skiing on anything but a full on powder day. Yes, the frame bindings are heavy and have their own limitations, but you can charge them hard in any conditions. Being an AT setup it has the added benefit of supporting sidecountry laps that a dedicated alpine setup wouldn't provide. I use the same boot (BD Factor MX) with both setups. The boots are plenty stuff for in-bounds days, although swapping the sole blocks is a minor inconvenience so my next pair of boots will be one of the many good boots with integrated tech fittings that will work in both setups without having to swap anything.
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- hillybilly
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7 years 11 months ago #231178
by hillybilly
Replied by hillybilly on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
I've been riding and skiing resort in Vulcan's boots and older radical FT bindings sending the same airs, hitting the same cliff bands, straight lining the same chutes, skiing the same ice and charging just as I did with my old resort setup. Its taking some warming up to the idea but after the past two years I usually forget I'm even in a tech setup by mid-day. I am now more worried my touring setup is getting too much wear while my resort setup sits idle.
I have yet to have an issue. My bindings have released when they should. There are guys sending and skiing harder than me in the same setup. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am trying to save the cash so I was actually about to go the opposite and stop funding my resort lineup. My plan was to buy two liners for my Vulcans. A powerwrap and a pro-tour intuition. With the saved cash I can now invest in a better mountaineering setup. Climbing volcanoes with 120 underfoot is a bit excessive.
I am 5'8" and 170#. Hope this helps.
I have yet to have an issue. My bindings have released when they should. There are guys sending and skiing harder than me in the same setup. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am trying to save the cash so I was actually about to go the opposite and stop funding my resort lineup. My plan was to buy two liners for my Vulcans. A powerwrap and a pro-tour intuition. With the saved cash I can now invest in a better mountaineering setup. Climbing volcanoes with 120 underfoot is a bit excessive.
I am 5'8" and 170#. Hope this helps.
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- ron j
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7 years 11 months ago #231188
by ron j
Replied by ron j on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
About 15 or 20 years ago I gave up on maintaining separate lift serviced skis and boots. At the time I had K2 Explorers set up for both downhill on Marker binders and the same on Dynafits for backcountry. Everyone else had light backcountry skis but Martin Volken (who was kinda new to the area - at least to me) had suggested that the heavier, shaped skis were really the superior tool for the backcountry, pointing out that if your were going to labor for hours on the upclimb to attain the line you saught, why not have good skis on which you could really enjoy the descent. Thus I bought into his argument and thus had the best downhill skis I could find for both downhill and backcountry. The Explorers under the Markers were the last resort set up I ever had. They're still here gathering dust (and free to anyone that might want to pick them up and buy me a beer or a cup coffee).
At the time my Dynafit bindings seemed to hold up hell for stout so I finally just started using my dynafit boots and the skis under my Dynafit bindings for all the lift serviced skiing I did. When I saw skis for sale with the Dynafit bindings I liked and the seller was asking what I would pay for the bindings I'd just buy them and give the ski away unless I liked them. So I have maybe 4 or 5 sets of the older Dynafits, which for me is probably a life's supply.
Anymore I usually just have a quiver of two; a pair of fatties for fresh dumps, and some skinnier, turnier ones for hard snow and summer skiing both used for resort or backcountry. I just use different poles and a helmet inbounds.
I did get a painful lesson the hard way and it cost me a pair of boots to learn it. At the time I was covering a lot of ground and time in the summertime chasing lines in my dynafit ski boots. And the mileage was taking it's toll on the soles of the boots... especially at the toes. I did notice that there was starting to be a fairly good sized gap between the toe sole and the binder toe cross piece between the pincers. I didn't much care though because the pincers held the boot toe cups in position. So with the toe pincers closed on the boot toe and the heel pins snapped in the boots were properly positioned regardless of how worn the boot soles were.
But after a year or two of skiing hard all year, I starting realizing that particularly hard turns to the left would cause my right ski to come off. After a couple of heinous crashes, I thought I'd better look into it. While watching the inboard right boot pincer pin/cup interface while in a hard left turn (not that easy for a geezer to do without crashing) I saw that the extra pressure was forcing the right boot down (no support underneath because the sole was worn down) and the pin up in the cup. Upon further investigation, I realized that the pin had worn a huge groove in the upper wall of the cup. I could partially mitigate the problem by skiing with the toe piece in tour mode, which I did for a bit, but to the detriment of releasabilily. Being a geezer, chose not to go for the lack of releasability long term. I built the sole back up to stock thickness at the toe with freesole so that it rested on the crossbar like stock, and that helped a bit, but the cup on the boot was trashed and I couldn't figure how to replace it without replacing the boot, so it was new boots for me.
So the moral of that story is make sure your boot toe has some support beneath it when locked in, so you don't wear out your boot toe pincer cups.
At the time my Dynafit bindings seemed to hold up hell for stout so I finally just started using my dynafit boots and the skis under my Dynafit bindings for all the lift serviced skiing I did. When I saw skis for sale with the Dynafit bindings I liked and the seller was asking what I would pay for the bindings I'd just buy them and give the ski away unless I liked them. So I have maybe 4 or 5 sets of the older Dynafits, which for me is probably a life's supply.
Anymore I usually just have a quiver of two; a pair of fatties for fresh dumps, and some skinnier, turnier ones for hard snow and summer skiing both used for resort or backcountry. I just use different poles and a helmet inbounds.
I did get a painful lesson the hard way and it cost me a pair of boots to learn it. At the time I was covering a lot of ground and time in the summertime chasing lines in my dynafit ski boots. And the mileage was taking it's toll on the soles of the boots... especially at the toes. I did notice that there was starting to be a fairly good sized gap between the toe sole and the binder toe cross piece between the pincers. I didn't much care though because the pincers held the boot toe cups in position. So with the toe pincers closed on the boot toe and the heel pins snapped in the boots were properly positioned regardless of how worn the boot soles were.
But after a year or two of skiing hard all year, I starting realizing that particularly hard turns to the left would cause my right ski to come off. After a couple of heinous crashes, I thought I'd better look into it. While watching the inboard right boot pincer pin/cup interface while in a hard left turn (not that easy for a geezer to do without crashing) I saw that the extra pressure was forcing the right boot down (no support underneath because the sole was worn down) and the pin up in the cup. Upon further investigation, I realized that the pin had worn a huge groove in the upper wall of the cup. I could partially mitigate the problem by skiing with the toe piece in tour mode, which I did for a bit, but to the detriment of releasabilily. Being a geezer, chose not to go for the lack of releasability long term. I built the sole back up to stock thickness at the toe with freesole so that it rested on the crossbar like stock, and that helped a bit, but the cup on the boot was trashed and I couldn't figure how to replace it without replacing the boot, so it was new boots for me.
So the moral of that story is make sure your boot toe has some support beneath it when locked in, so you don't wear out your boot toe pincer cups.
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- TN
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7 years 11 months ago #231190
by TN
Replied by TN on topic Re: AT vs Alpine in the Resort ???
So much good info in this thread, maybe some enterprising individual could compile in a pros and cons chart!?
On lifts I ski the Vulcan on an Atomic Vantage 100. For a short "sidecountry" tour I have LaSpotiva High 5s with a Fritche frame AT binder.
Touring, I ski the Arcteryx boot now after being on TLT6 since I switched to pin tech.
I cannot imagine being able to ride lifts repeatedly in those tour boots. I demoed the Atomic Backland Carbon recently and would say the same about it. I would have to fiddle buckles at the top and bottom of every lift ride to get into walk mode for the ride up! (Too cold and uncomfortable in ski mode) I've seen folks riding lifts in these light, thin, lesser buckled boots, so some can make it work. The compound problem is that these and a few other boots are"pin-tech only" boots. In 'beefier' boots like the Vulcan or the new Atomic Hawx, the liner is thicker and stiffer materials distribute the buckle pressure better. Those boots will stand up far better to repeated use on lifts.
One major problem with pin-tech on lifts comes when some find they must ski in walk mode on Dynafits because otherwise they pre-release. In addition, many Dynafit models have way too much ramp angle. This can be seen in the backseat stance of many users and their "dancing tips" in powder. (That backseat stance becomes even more of a problem on-piste.) Older Dynafits have kind of a fake ski brake that I wouldn't trust anywhere.
I have three pair of pow tour skis with Vipecs, none of the skis are all that fun "in-area". The Vipec and especially new models like the Techron, Kingpin and Salomon Shift have big advantages in both wear and safety categories.
While many have expressed that they have done fine lift skiing on their pin-tech so far, I agree with Mike Rolfs and many others that the safety is just not there. Also, there is no way that the boot to ski connection is as positive with "pin" connections front and rear! Additionally, It doesn't make sense to me to wear out the bindings and boots that I depend on for backcountry delight!
Totally agree with those who have expressed how much extra gear is out there at a good price, go get some!
On lifts I ski the Vulcan on an Atomic Vantage 100. For a short "sidecountry" tour I have LaSpotiva High 5s with a Fritche frame AT binder.
Touring, I ski the Arcteryx boot now after being on TLT6 since I switched to pin tech.
I cannot imagine being able to ride lifts repeatedly in those tour boots. I demoed the Atomic Backland Carbon recently and would say the same about it. I would have to fiddle buckles at the top and bottom of every lift ride to get into walk mode for the ride up! (Too cold and uncomfortable in ski mode) I've seen folks riding lifts in these light, thin, lesser buckled boots, so some can make it work. The compound problem is that these and a few other boots are"pin-tech only" boots. In 'beefier' boots like the Vulcan or the new Atomic Hawx, the liner is thicker and stiffer materials distribute the buckle pressure better. Those boots will stand up far better to repeated use on lifts.
One major problem with pin-tech on lifts comes when some find they must ski in walk mode on Dynafits because otherwise they pre-release. In addition, many Dynafit models have way too much ramp angle. This can be seen in the backseat stance of many users and their "dancing tips" in powder. (That backseat stance becomes even more of a problem on-piste.) Older Dynafits have kind of a fake ski brake that I wouldn't trust anywhere.
I have three pair of pow tour skis with Vipecs, none of the skis are all that fun "in-area". The Vipec and especially new models like the Techron, Kingpin and Salomon Shift have big advantages in both wear and safety categories.
While many have expressed that they have done fine lift skiing on their pin-tech so far, I agree with Mike Rolfs and many others that the safety is just not there. Also, there is no way that the boot to ski connection is as positive with "pin" connections front and rear! Additionally, It doesn't make sense to me to wear out the bindings and boots that I depend on for backcountry delight!
Totally agree with those who have expressed how much extra gear is out there at a good price, go get some!
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