Comment on snowmobile, snowbike use.

Why the hardon for snow bikes? Snowmobiles and snow bikes aren't that different. Game changing? I'm not really following you.

Others see the solution as restricting machines to roads and trails so let's remind them that the snowmobile community helped evac that guided skier group after this years tragic accident in Oregon.

In reading that report, I believe the snowmobiles were unable to reach the site and the injured skiers were carried on litters to a waiting Baker Count SAR snowcat and Guard heli for evac. That doesn't diminish the snowmobile club's intention to help but it's not really accurate to say they rescued that group. If this is wrong, consider me admonished.

I keep hearing the "loud voices" of the pro moto crowd talking about how big their user group is. This was proven to be inaccurate a few years ago when the WMC was pushing for further snowmobile regulation. All statistics point to non motorized groups(snowshoeing/xc skiing/bc skiing) having much larger participation than snowmobilers.

What I see is akin to fear tactics implemented by the snomo crowd because they might lose what is basically unrestricted access to the forest outside Wilderness area. Everyone is going to lose access to the forest if snowmobiles are restricted to roads and designated routes? We'll see, I personally don't see that happening. I don't see what's wrong with over the snow travel having a regulated travel plan just like all other motorized OHVs.

The argument that it costs nothing for the FS to decommission roads is wrong, they usually hire a contractor and bring in a cat with a ripper and tear up the road and build berms to restrict access. Most of the existing forest roads are in disrepair because no one uses them and they go nowhere. The majority of the roads were constructed for logging. Most, not all, of the roads with a destination or that connect popular areas get regular maintenance. More fear tactics.

BTW, I've used sleds to access areas for skiing that would otherwise involve long, time consuming approaches. I never left the road though. That's just like using a car to drive on the Forest, riding a sled in the alpine or other off trail areas isn't the same as driving a car.

I'm not anti snowmobile, but to continue with current travel management plans that don't address over the now vehicles is wrong. If continued use of snowmobiles in certain areas is upheld I won't whine about it. I'm more interested in the FS addressing the issue just like they do with snow free OHV travel instead of ignoring the current situation. I happily share the trails near my home with trail bikes.

IMO your oil leaking, smoke belching noisemaker should never be allowed to leave the road or designated OHV/Snomo park.

Agree, which is why I advocate that people scrap the old, slow stinky stuff and get on the new, lower emission, non leaky, much more off trail capable sleds that have been brought to market in the last 10 years.

Why the hardon for snow bikes? Snowmobiles and snow bikes aren't that different. Game changing? I'm not really following you.

Probably because there is a perception (which is accurate in my experience) that snowbikes are able to access terrain in a way that isn't easily done by most people on sleds (even the new gen sleds, but the gap is narrowing a bit).

I keep hearing the "loud voices" of the pro moto crowd talking about how big their user group is. This was proven to be inaccurate a few years ago when the WMC was pushing for further snowmobile regulation. All statistics point to non motorized groups(snowshoeing/xc skiing/bc skiing) having much larger participation than snowmobilers.

I see both sides of the argument. I ski and I own a mountain sled. On the skiing end of the spectrum I see a few access points crowded with skiers and snowshoers all stacked on top of one another. This causes all sorts of issues from secret stash issues and TR bitching, to skinning up the descent route to more serious accidents involving avalanches. Yes, this is a large group but the snowmo crowd is quite large and arguably in the B/C way more than Susie snowshoer and Rando Randy who gets out on the weekends. The snowmo crowd is accessing areas that only see a handful of people outside of the user group a year. So, why is a user group that has no practical way of accessing these areas (outside of huge road slogs) so up in arms? The snowmo crowd would love to cite their "hippy agenda" to limit access to everything green. Be careful TAY, you may just get what you ask for.

The argument that it costs nothing for the FS to decommission roads is wrong, they usually hire a contractor and bring in a cat with a ripper and tear up the road and build berms to restrict access. Most of the existing forest roads are in disrepair because no one uses them and they go nowhere. The majority of the roads were constructed for logging. Most, not all, of the roads with a destination or that connect popular areas get regular maintenance. More fear tactics.

Clearly we are splitting hairs now...

BTW, I've used sleds to access areas for skiing that would otherwise involve long, time consuming approaches. I never left the road though. That's just like using a car to drive on the Forest, riding a sled in the alpine or other off trail areas isn't the same as driving a car.

Yes, its even less impact because at the end of that "road" we leave no trace of ever being there come the next snowstorm. Your right, its not the same as driving a car.

not anti snowmobile, but to continue with current travel management plans that don't address over the now vehicles is wrong. If continued use of snowmobiles in certain areas is upheld I won't whine about it. I'm more interested in the FS addressing the issue just like they do with snow free OHV travel instead of ignoring the current situation. I happily share the trails near my home with trail bikes.

Hmm...just like to argue then.

Hmm...just like to argue then.

Well, maybe. Do you think that Winter Travel Management Plans should address over the snow vehicles? I do and a Federal Court has deemed that it's something the FS should do instead of ignoring the current status quo.

I'm in the same camp as freeski pretty much. I think the user groups are incompatible for the most part and need separate areas.