June 29, 2013, Dege Peak, Fall on steep, hard snow

Avajane

Thanks for the thoughtful post, my daughter is a solid skier, not as good as your daughter by the sounds of it, and I have taken her on tours in the great wide world, that have been well within her skiing skills, but because of the unfamiliar terrain she would become tentative, and not really ski as well as she might have, in a place she had skied before. These trips usually become part of the family chronicle under the heading; Another example of dad trying to kill me. It is a hard balance for me, I want her to enjoy the skiing I find so exciting, but not exceed her skill. I really should be more sensitive, because I am much the same, and become tentative on challenging ski routs myself!

I might add that I recently took by niece and nephew up on the Paradise Glacier.  They are both very strong ski-area skiers but have not been in the backcountry.  My niece was somewhat cautious and reluctant.  I was worried that she was not having a good time.  She now reflects back on that day as one of the best moments in her life.  I'm sure your daughter is secretly appreciating all these attempts on her life 

Bill G

These stories really resonate with me.

There have been several times when I've put my son into situations that in retrospect I shouldn't have.  He's forgiven me, but I haven't.

It's easy to forget how quickly skiing can turn into mountaineering in the backcountry.

If you're not used to mountaineering exposure, being a good skier doesn't count for much.

I'm eager to experience the mountains with my son as a buddy, but I have to remind myself that I need to think more like a guide.

I was a rock climber most of my life until I got too wrecked and too scarred. Then (as I always knew I would) I turned into a mountaineer! Mostly a ski mountaineer. As a technical rock climber who almost exclusively climbed on good granite, I always felt that mountaineering was actually much more dangerous. Other than getting my kids on toprope and climbing the REI pinnacle, I never really wanted them to become climbers. Skiers yes, but for me climbing was always too dangerous to steer my kids into. Ski mountaineering? I dunno. We're all doing it some, but the youngest is 19 and the oldest is 30, so they can decide how they want to play on their own. I don't think that I'm suggesting anything over 30 degrees anymore...I realized last weekend that I couldn't live with that. No value judgements here. I wouldn't put my own paranoia on anyone. Climbing has lots of good parts to it, and sharing it with another is a personal choice. Nice discussion guys.

ps I have told Ava that she had no reason for missing that turn! But deep down, I know the reason just like most of us do. When things tighten up - you gotta fight the urge to be tentative. Because like a Ranger once told me. "Help is a long time coming!"

I'm glad the end result was just some bruises and scratches, a fall with an uncontrolled slide isn't a trivial matter. I hope your daughter just sees this as part of the learning process & not too rattled by it. I'm sure the slope was deceptive and felt reasonable yet hard enough underneath to enable a fast, frightening ride. I can't say that a Whippet does a lot of good once a fallen skier has picked up momentum and body position isn't always well suited to establish a quality "arrest". Later season snow also firms up making a good arrest harder. Since a whippet is a tool, it's good to have some fundamental climbing knowledge and practice (self arrest techniques) to get the most out of it but a great piece of added assurance to have if you can reliably deploy it.

Having a son, Stewart( now 21) who has fully adopted the climbing and ski-mountaineering lifestyle has taught me a few things.
#1.. It's scary...I love that he likes to do what I like, but it scares me shitless especially now that he is doing it without me.
#2.. When I was his mentor, I was very conservative with him and as Lowell says....tried to have a "guide mentality" and kept" what will his mother say" in the back of my mind at all times.
#3: Now that he is branching out on his own I find that he needs constant reminders regarding risk analysis:  Youth are not prone to good risk analysis....bravado, peer pressure and a sense of immortality gets in the way and clouds their analysis.

Recently we were out on a tour and there was a nasty moat crossing, very easy but if you fell in ,you would die a long and miserable death. My partner and I decided to rope up and belay across the moat. Very simple, very quick. Stewart didn't want to and thought us overcautious and old farts. I took the opportunity the day after to discuss it with him and used Volken's very useful Risk versus Consequence graph to explain my thoughts on the matter.

It's a great thing watching them mature in the mountains.

Glad you daughter is OK....she was not the only one who fell that day...I know at least one more Dad ( not me) who witnessed his child take a bad fall and slide for life over rocks up at Sunrise. They are OK as well.