June 29, 2013, Dege Peak, Fall on steep, hard snow

risk vs. consequences is a powerful good argument i have been using as of late but with the reward caveat used to break a tie.
b

Having a son, Stewart( now 21) who has fully adopted the climbing and ski-mountaineering lifestyle has taught me a few things.
#1.. It's scary...I love that he likes to do what I like, but it scares me shitless especially now that he is doing it without me.
#2.. When I was his mentor, I was very conservative with him and as Lowell says....tried to have a "guide mentality" and kept" what will his mother say" in the back of my mind at all times.
#3: Now that he is branching out on his own I find that he needs constant reminders regarding risk analysis:  Youth are not prone to good risk analysis....bravado, peer pressure and a sense of immortality gets in the way and clouds their analysis.

Recently we were out on a tour and there was a nasty moat crossing, very easy but if you fell in ,you would die a long and miserable death. My partner and I decided to rope up and belay across the moat. Very simple, very quick. Stewart didn't want to and thought us overcautious and old farts. I took the opportunity the day after to discuss it with him and used Volken's very useful Risk versus Consequence graph to explain my thoughts on the matter.

It's a great thing watching them mature in the mountains.

Glad you daughter is OK....she was not the only one who fell that day...I know at least one more Dad ( not me) who witnessed his child tlake a bad fall and slide for life over rocks up at Sunrise. They are OK as well.

At 15 I went rock climbing with a quadrupled clothsline and fiberglass nuts from a telephone pole and thought I was being safe. Now I'm the safety preacher 40 years later. What a ride! So glad to be here, I want to stay just a little bit longer. Glad the near miss's were no more than that.

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sorry about the feeling for the incident.

You are a good father.

If you think you made a mistake...then it is okay.

Royal Robbins I believe said something like this: "You gain experience through mistakes."

Peace.

Thanks for posting this and sharing your experience.

Reminds me of the story of my ex jumping in to Corbetts in 1991 only to slide the whole thing after her skis popped off. It really hits one deep and hard to see a loved one sliding out of control.

Reminds me of me sliding out of control on 4/15/07 at Alpy climbing over to Pineapple and sliding head first over the cliff at the top after making a bunch of little mistakes starting with turning my head to make sure my son was following. Ended up breaking my fibula.......then skiing out (that's a good story in and of itself).

For sure, if one spends time in steep terrain shit will happen, there will be slides with possible consequences. I am both a rock climber and ski mountaineer and have always felt like mountaineering is much more dangerous than rock. Now I did more sport climbing then Trad or Alpine, which is a big difference. Yet, the rock was solid and unless I made a mistake I feel like I can control the objective hazards.

Mountaineering is filled with potential "acts of God" (especially avys) that there is no way to control. The random fall through a snow bridge, the ice fall cleaving and so on are certainly almost impossible to predict, let alone a huge rock and water slide as the result of a built up water that is under the surface.

Risk recreation with children is an intense thing. Many of my lowland friends do not get climbing, let alone climbing with a child. Yet the shard experience is pretty darn special. My son have always been really close but after this past year of him skiing on the Freeride tour, we have become so much closer. Better yet, our relationship evolved in to something deeper...............we are now climbing partners and take responsibility for each other's life.

Like most parents, I had conflicted feelings about introducing my daughter to BC skiing and climbing. Eventually I did, mainly because she expressed an interest, but there's always the thought in the back of your mind: Could I live with myself if something bad happened?

We did crevasse rescue training and I taught her how to use an ice axe and did my best to teach her the skills she needed but eventually you have to climb/ski a steep slope and hope she can deal with it.  I always asked her if she was comfortable before we jumped in and sometimes she turned back.  Fortunately, the times she dove in she always nailed it.  In the end it was rewarding for me and her to see her gain the skills and confidence to get around in the BC.  Since she's been off to college she doesn't get into the BC much, mainly because she hasn't connected with a social group that does that sort of thing.  I'm glad for that given that I don't trust most college-age boys to have the right level of caution.

Speaking of college-age boys, however, I must clarify that some of them do have excellent judgment.  In particular, my 23 year old nephew, who had been one of my favorite climbing/skiing partners over the years, had demonstrated a high level of wisdom and caution on our trips and even managed to avoid major issues when out with his buddies. 

I think the best we can do is try to be good role models, explain why we make the decisions we do, and hope for the best.  In the end, some of our kids will be drawn to the mountains and we want them to benefit from our experience and expertise and be glad for the opportunity to share some good times in the mountains.

I'm glad I found this topic. With kids ages 3, 5, 8, and 10 I look forward to every moment in the mountains with them. We have mostly spent our time backpacking and hiking in the summer (summiting small peaks like Mt. Angeles and Ellinor) and have done some small traverses in the high country. Then we ski at the resort in the winter. For the first time I took them out to the exit 38 crag... I hired a guide (Forest McBrian... with whom I've done a lot of skiing/mountaineering) so that I could be sure I was doing the best I could in setting out on this path. The kids LOVED the climbing. We have bonded in deep ways every time we have been hiking, backpacking, or skiing. Being busy with work and now that they are getting to be very busy with school and extra curricular activities, these events are really the only moments I get to spend with them that are deep and extended... where we can relax and be ourselves and build on our love for each other and for the earth.

Luckily I haven't been in any really scary situations yet (except for my 5 year old son having no concept of consequences and flying on his skis into the terrain park without any warning--flew off a jump, knocked the wind out of him, but he was okay).

I admire the skills guides have and that is the skill set I want to acquire in guiding my children. I'll actually be guiding my wife on Mt. Baker this weekend. Stories of people sliding on hard summer snow are penetrating deep into my consciousness now. It is good to hear of others' experiences in order to be even more alert and conscious of danger.

I love the mountains. They provide such a contrast of life and death all at once. But I'm with all of you... I want to stick around for a long, long time... especially with my loved ones... in the mountains.

Thanks for starting this discussion and contributing to my consciousness as I begin to introduce my little ones into the big world of mountains.