National Forest Snowmobile lawsuit

^^^ This would effectively be a non-motorized sno-park, since snowmobiles are allowed on FS roads "once there is enough snow to prevent wheeled vehicle use".
I think your buddy WMC would be against this idea, since he is seeking easy, sit-down type snowmobiling access in this very area.
Also, closing the south side of Baker (park butte) will be a fight to the end, as it is currently the only area in Whatcom Co that sleds can access alpine terrain. Yep, that's right, everything else is sub-alpine, roads, or off-limits. The idea that sleds have free reign everywhere is asinine and ignorant.

^^^ This would effectively be a non-motorized sno-park, since snowmobiles are allowed on FS roads "once there is enough snow to prevent wheeled vehicle use".
I think your buddy WMC would be against this idea, since he is seeking easy, sit-down type snowmobiling access in this very area.
Also, closing the south side of Baker (park butte) will be a fight to the end, as it is currently the only area in Whatcom Co that sleds can access alpine terrain. Yep, that's right, everything else is sub-alpine, roads, or off-limits.  The idea that sleds have free reign everywhere is asinine and ignorant.

Then how do those tracks magically appear outside of permissible boundaries and where they have never been until recently?

T. Eastman, boundary crossing is a problem, which happens most often on the nicest clear weather days of the winter, and this year we had quite a few nice days.  For this problem, enforcement and awareness programs are needed.

The 2 or 3 drainages/bowls of terrain along hwy 20 in N. Chelan Co. are what I THINK you are referring to as "never been seen in" areas. These bowls are the most sane to access on a sled, and are really the only ones people will consider going into. The Cascades Mtns topography really does a good job of keeping the BRAAP out! Honestly!

I used Whatcom Co. as my example because this is where I live and this county has one of the largest concentrations of Alpine terrain in the State. There is ONE place (Mt. Baker NRA) that I can legally access Alpine terrain on a sled. In the Nooksack Valley there are NONE! There are a few spots here to access small sub-alpine areas. Personally, I abide by the laws and know local Wilderness boundaries better than most.

I am just trying to put my perspective out there as something to consider. Ski tourers ultimately have "free reign" (just look at Kyle's recent, amazing trip) and, if you imagine yourself as having a snowmobile, look up where you could go in your local area. I'm sure it's limited, and is probably being pressured to get smaller. You could probably include most of Skagit Co. (so the majority of the N. Cascades) in my statement about off limits to snowmobiles. Up here, we are limited to roads, limited sub-alpine terrain, and a dash of Alpine. Luckily, for my interests, I support Canadian snowmobile clubs and can look forward to Alpine terrain sled-ski laps for years to come, while down here things look to be getting worse. I invite you to look at this nice Wilderness overlay map and consider where you could snowmobile vs. ski in desirable terrain.
www.wilderness.net/map.cfm?xmin=-1353746...95&ymax=6227347.8085

^^^ This would effectively be a non-motorized sno-park, since snowmobiles are allowed on FS roads "once there is enough snow to prevent wheeled vehicle use".
I think your buddy WMC would be against this idea, since he is seeking easy, sit-down type snowmobiling access in this very area.
Also, closing the south side of Baker (park butte) will be a fight to the end, as it is currently the only area in Whatcom Co that sleds can access alpine terrain. Yep, that's right, everything else is sub-alpine, roads, or off-limits.  The idea that sleds have free reign everywhere is asinine and ignorant.

I guess my first thought is so what? You can't hunt in a national park. You can't use machines (or even bicycles) inside Wilderness areas. The Wilderness line is rather arbitrary for this area. Most hikers are surprised to find that Park Butte is not in the Wilderness area, and that the lines are drawn where they are.

My second thought (after looking at a map) is that there are areas to the west of Baker that look to be alpine that you could sled to. I've never been to that area, though, as it is just too long a trip and there are surely snowmobiles in that area.

Which brings up my last point. Park Butte may be the only Alpine area available for sleds in Whatcom county, but there are only a couple areas that are available for skiers: Park Butte and Artist Point. There are other spots where one could, theoretically, access them, but it would require a very long ski trip.

Similarly, there really aren't many places like Park Butte anywhere in the state. I'm talking about relatively safe, easy, wild but easily accessible terrain. Artist Point and Paradise are the main two. Other spots around Rainier or Baker pop up in the spring and early summer, but even some of those typically require carrying skis. For the most part, a skier or snowshoer who wants a safe, easy trip sticks to logging roads. Unfortunately, many of those are filled with sleds as well. So they go to the same spots over and over.

I guess my point is that while I understand why a sledder would fight for that area, I think plenty of skiers and snowshoers would too. Like the sledder, we are fighting over a very rare and precious commodity. In this case, it would be the closest type of place to the greater Seattle area, the most populous spot in the state.

Also, closing the south side of Baker (park butte) will be a fight to the end, as it is currently the only area in Whatcom Co that sleds can access alpine terrain. Yep, that's right, everything else is sub-alpine, roads, or off-limits.  The idea that sleds have free reign everywhere is asinine and ignorant.

In 1996 I did an overnight ski trip up Church Mountain from the south. On the morning of our second day we skied to one of the summits up there and looked down the north side (Whistler Creek drainage) and saw that it was crisscrossed by snowmobile tracks. Is that off-limits now? Or is this one of the areas you consider sub-alpine terrain?

Lowell, that area has been closed for 3 years now pending "washout" of road. "Maybe next year" has become the word. If it re-opens, that would become another Alpine zone (barely) due to the elevation of Church and Bearpaw. It is probably one of the best areas to snowmobile in Whatcom Co. and definitely the Nooksack.

RossB, wow. I guess I'll respond to ignorance...ONCE.
I can't follow your first thought, but your right, Park Butte is not in the Wilderness... completely... the side that faces the Middle Fork is.

Your second thought is completely false from your "glance at a map". Please look at the one I provided and be aware of all closures (wilderness, animal closures, private property, gates).

And you last "point" is from another world. In this world, the ski into Park
Butte is not "easily accessible". It would require miles of travel, thousands of feet of elevation gain, etc. Do you realize that the sno-park is usually at the first lot, about a 1-1/2 miles from Baker Lk Hwy, for most of the winter?? To plow that road would be a nightmare at best...
I do agree (been ski touring 20 years) that parking lots for easy access touring are sparse, but my original point is that sledders are restricted to few areas and SKIERS CAN GO MOST ANYWHERE!!!