Wenatchee World Articles and USFS talking points.

I have friends that sled for skiing and just for fun, but even they sometimes cross the line. It's a symptom of our society.

I agree...too many users, not enough winter access in WA.....put too many rats in a cage and they start eating each other.
Rather than WMC's approach to close areas, restrict access and necessitate active policing that won't occur.... we should take the Libertarian approach and improve access and spread the rats around.

Open the Sunrise road in MRNP for sled access, or plow the road to allow access for motors.
Open 410 all the way to Cayuse for snowmobile access.
Gondola like the Aguile du Midi all the way to the top of Steamboat Prow.
New Lift to the top of East Peak at Crystal.
Permits for a Silverton type single chair ski area in suitable area in WA.
European hut system from Snocrummie Pass to Stevens along the " WA High Route"
Expand Alpental ski area into Scott Bowl and Chair peak basin.

Now that would be progress.

Thanks for your input WMC.  A lot of passive/aggressive around these days.  I might get a machine in a few years but will  only ride in the legal areas and will be sure that it has a very quiet muffler.

Here around Bachelor and Tumalo mountain we are still getting good ski areas-- that are for non-motorized--trashed by snowmobiles....  Sucks to do all skinning  and ultimately find this!

Hearing of wilderness infractions too around here also..

I agree...too many users, not enough winter access in WA.....put too many rats in a cage and they start eating each other.
Rather than WMC's approach to close areas, restrict access and necessitate active policing that won't occur.... we should take the Libertarian approach and improve access and spread the rats around.

Open the Sunrise road in MRNP for sled access, or plow the road to allow access for motors.
Open 410 all the way to Cayuse for snowmobile access.
Gondola like the Aguile du Midi all the way to the top of Steamboat Prow.
New Lift to the top of East Peak at Crystal.
Permits for a Silverton type single chair ski area in suitable area in WA.
European hut system from Snocrummie Pass to Stevens along the " WA High Route"
Expand Alpental ski area into Scott Bowl and Chair peak basin.

Now that would be progress.

In all seriousness, I completely agree that lack of access is the biggest hurdle that needs to be overcome, especially non-motorized access to Wilderness (I know I've preached here about this before). The area that started all of this, the North Fork of Teanaway, has more than enough terrain for skiers and snowmobilers. There are entire basins (Bean, Standup, Hardscrabble, Fourth, Turnpike) with tons of great skiable terrain and no snowmobiles. The problem is that they are 10+ miles from the trailhead. If we could all work together to push for the road to be plowed to the Beverly campground, it would completely change the dynamic of the Teanaway.

We might be surprised what the USFS would go for if both sides of the table were requesting the same thing.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle.
The population is expanding, winter sports such as snowmobile riding AND ski-touring is increasing due to advances in both snowmobile and ski-touring technology. Backcountry ski touring is experiencing the growth recreational rock climbing did in the 80's and 90's.

The ski areas in WA are packed to the brim...to the extent that the experience is suffering. Huge lines on good days at Crystal, Stevens, Alpental and Baker. Blame wide skis but wide skis aren't going away.

The easy access ski-touring areas are packed to the brim in good weather and the experience is suffering, Paradise on a nice day, holy shit!Blame websites like TAY  if you want for encouraging and popularizing the sport and magazines like Backcountry, Powder and companies like K2, Blackdiamond for making all this great gear.

Snowmobiles are  NOT going to be banned  for good ever and they are only going to get more reliable, more powerful and more people riding them both for snowmobiling only and ski access.

Ski touring is going to get more popular...have you seen the latest sexy gear and technology at the recent ISO? There's obviously good profit margins in BC gear.

A certain part of the population will always break the rules...a small minority of snowmobilers will always cross legal boundaries...a small population of skiers will always cross ski area boundaries... this will not change...just like we will always have some crime. Laws are required but policing remote areas is impracticable and expensive.

I personally have no time for historical nostalgia and to those that revel in remembering the days of few users and untracked fields of powder when only the few and elite frolicked in the mountains, I say enjoy your nostalgia but the future is what counts.

Trying to close areas will not succeed in the long run.... give me a historical example where it has.
The past has gone.....face the reality of the new world.....solve the problems of multi-use by expanding the areas that can be used by each group and accepting that the mountains are getting crowded because easy access is restricted at the present.

To argue that "hard" access is not limited is elitist and selfish. Not everybody has the time, money and ability to train and buy gear to be able to access the North Cascades and boast about it on TAY via a TR.

A different approach and thought process is required. WMC's approach is useless , trapped in the past, ignoring reality and even if it succeeds it will not solve the problem in the long run.

Accept reality folks and plan for it.

Ideologues like WMC have always caused the wars.... pragmatists always have to clean up after them.

I agree...too many users, not enough winter access in WA.....put too many rats in a cage and they start eating each other.
Rather than WMC's approach to close areas, restrict access and necessitate active policing that won't occur.... we should take the Libertarian approach and improve access and spread the rats around.

Open the Sunrise road in MRNP for sled access, or plow the road to allow access for motors.
Open 410 all the way to Cayuse for snowmobile access.
Gondola like the Aguile du Midi all the way to the top of Steamboat Prow.
New Lift to the top of East Peak at Crystal.
Permits for a Silverton type single chair ski area in suitable area in WA.
European hut system from Snocrummie Pass to Stevens along the " WA High Route"
Expand Alpental ski area into Scott Bowl and Chair peak basin.

Now that would be progress.

Also, there should be a tram from Leavenworth into Enchantment Lakes basin and another from Cascade River Rd. to Cascade pass with smaller lifts going to Sahale and other peaks in the area. Also Stehekin should be developed into a town like Chamonix and Holden Village like La Grave. The possibilities are endless in WA. Imagine having trams from Early Winter/Mazama to Cutthroat Peak and Hart's Pass? How about Sliver Star Col? If we could accomplish all this development snow mobile would have to be banned.

Maybe because this is a huge non-issue.  The only reports I've seen on TAY reporting user conflict with snowmobiles have been on Mt. Baker. Please give other specific examples of good backcountry ski spots that are overrun with snowmobile traffic in the Leavenworth Wenatchee area. I don't think there are any.

The ironic thing is that you ride a snowmachine to access skiing so how can you argue that snowmobiles are inherently damaging to the environment or wildlife? Do you think that because you supplement your sled rides with ski touring you are morally superior to those that just ride snowmobiles without skiing? Too funny.

Perhaps, please, you could become informed instead of requiring others to reconstruct the past and present state of affairs. There are over a thousand posts on several websites, there are the articles on Wenatchee Outdoors with color maps and specific information. Perhaps you could read the Wenatchee World article-

www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/aug/05/...ot-just-snowmobiles/

www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2012/jan/28/...yre-mean-and-theyre/

www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/21163

"The Wenatchee portion of the national forest has not systematically addressed the winter environment at a spatial scale. Areas currently closed to motorized use in winter include congressionally-designated wilderness, downhill ski areas and the Tronsen Meadows area near Blewett Pass."
From "USDA Forest Service Okanogan-Wenatchee N.F. Fact Sheet Date: January 31, 2012"

In plain terms, that defines a snowmobile free-for-all without rules generally, that spills unlawfully into Wilderness and closed areas.

The above defines areas closed to snowmobiles on the Wenatchee NF. Is your favorite skitour closed to snowmobile riding? With the ever-increasing HP, technology, and expansion into new areas of the Forest, even unlawfully across Wilderness. Will snowmobiles never get into your favorite skitouring/snowshoeing area? Will it be harmonious when snowmobiles arrive on your favorite skitour? This video below was on the local news.  The video shows a person on foot, a dismounted rider, buried in an avalanche by another snowmobile ridden above-



It would be a great start to have management of snowmobiles managed per the law. If so, there would be plenty of quality snowmobile riding and plenty of quiet-use non-motorized areas on the Forest-

www.archives.gov/federal-register/codifi...ive-order/11644.html

www.epa.gov/compliance/basics/nepa.html

Is it morally superior to have no rules for snowmobile riding other the few closures described? Do you ride snowmobiles? Do you ski tour anywhere where this is a problem, perhaps not, perhaps you have no understanding of these issues. Most citizen-owners of the Forest are unable to go where you have to Colchuck Lake, France, etc., for winter non-motorized recreation. Most individuals would benefit from some accessible winter non-motorized areas on the Wenatchee forest.