New non-motorised snoparks

TOO LONG TO READ: I've often thought that trams would be great in a variety of places; a rational, can-do society would have constructed some by now.  The U.S. is, perhaps, the most can't-do and it-will-cost-you-a-bundle society.  We need a Great Depression to recreate the CCCs.

But as Vogtski points out, access to public lands (not just NPs) is decreasing.  Lack of road, trail,  and campground maintenance and handovers to concessionaires is scandalous on the National Forests. Mt. Rainier once had a wonderful plan for increasing access, now totally defunct..  A couple of years ago, they suggested closing down Cougar Rock Campground, and maybe Longmire.  Sunshine Point campground is gone, as it the campground that used to be up the West-side Road. Other roads to the Park have been closed or are expected to be lost to floods and washouts.

It is interesting that an all-volunteer group (MTTA) provide access and "groomed" trails on industrial forest lands, but the Park can't even groom the Paradise Valley Road, mark a system of loop snowshoe trails, and, often, open the road to Paradise before noon.   It would be great if the Park would groom the W-side Rd, roads behind Longmire, Paradise Valley Road, and some of the Stevens Canyon Road, making them accessible for access to bc for the hardy and for plain old recreation by the average to aging snowhoers and XC skiers.

MRNP just had a meeting on new safety policies for visitor access--Park people, concessionaires, and a consultant--no user group or user representative was reported in the paper. 

So what is the problem?  It is multifaceted.  Budget, of course.  Will (or lack of recreational user appreciation) seems lacking.  Adversarialism in the Public--some want all wilderness with no access, some with little access; others want improved access to public lands in general; even repairing or relocating trails has  been contested in adminstrative and legal procedures.  Politics--federal budgets for recreation were deliberately cut and replaced to some extent by fees because anti-gov't proponents didn't believe recreation was important.  Economics--reduced timber harvests on NF and State lands reduced funds available for road maintenance and recreational access; tax revenues have fallen; wars and other expenditures have created a massive debt and deficit.

Yup, good summary Andrew. Some of your comments remind me that in some ways China has picked up the "can do, let's build new and maintain old infrastructure" mantle that our country had in spades when my parents were young. Now nothing is perfect and I fully realize that one of their "advantages" in this regard includes a government that is very able to impose its will on the public w/o a whole bunch of hearings and such, and that there are many concerns about environmental degradations as part of the overall picture. But still, when I travel over there, it's hard not to sigh and think about how things have changed here since mid-last-century. And boy, do they have the will. Local forums are full of threads about lack of road plowing, closed roads and fights about whether to re-open, closed roads that have just been given up on, etc. And I think that your economics point is one of the linchpins, though adversarialism and associated politics seem even more paramount (though for the several tramways we can all imagine, let's go back to economics  ).

Dang there are a couple of really cool ideas. Trams / Gondolas.. that crap sounds fricken awesome!!!

It almost seems like ALL users of the FS need to band together to make these things happen. A lot of times we seem to be too busy fighting each other for access to the same little pieces instead of working together to increase access to new pieces.

Do you guys agree with this?

Is there even a group around like this? A group that would be able to put pressure on the FS to increase access instead of what looks like constantly limiting it or trying to take from one group to the other?

I don't know.. I guess random thought of the day, but it seems like if we could all work together we could get some amazing things accomplished.

Just think if REI and the other big clothing producers, as well as wilderness groups and other land use groups pooled their money together to make these things happen.. Instead of spending it against each other..

Probably should stop at 2 cups of coffee as I am getting delirious...

Greenwater could become the WA equivalent of Chamonix!

Imagining Wapiti Woolies serving Illy espresso in tiny little cups and the biker bar across the street serving Pernod and croque monsieurs is giving me the gigglesnorts

Ruffryder if you haven't already you should really watch the National Park Series by PBS, which gives a really good picture of Gifford Pinchot and John Muir, two contemporaries who both loved nature, had vastly different ideas about how to honor that love, were very different people, met and talked several times, and most importantly probably shaped America's mental approach to wild lands more than any other two individuals in history.

Also, the both left their personal marks rather indelibly on Washington State.

If roads seem like a pipe-dream, what about a hut system? They seem like they'd be far cheaper to maintain.

I've spoken with a a few friends about a hut system for the N. Cascades and most seem interested in the idea. As far as I can tell, the fire lookouts are seeing increased winter traffic every year, yet they're I'll suited to handle much traffic at all, and poorly suited to house winter travelers. Just to our north, there's an great series of affordable winter huts, stocked with wood stoves, and located near tree and alpine skiing; how is it that the canadians have such an amazing hut system yet there are basically none in the cascades?

Does anyone know what type of permitting it would take to build a winter hut in the NF? the NP?

The hannegan pass parking (near mt baker) area always seemed like a decent spot to build one to me. easy, if long-ish approach, minimal slide path danger, easy to repair and maintain in the summer once the road opens.

The twins range? The south side of shuksan? the site of the old mountaineers cabin on the north side of baker? My awareness of the greater cascades is still growing, but it seems like there is huge potential just on my own home turf.

I would certainly like more huts. Roadside huts would be nice and definitely be OK from a Wilderness standpoint. The only possible problem I see is vandalism. Maybe something a mile or so away from the road would be ideal. Far enough away to discourage vandals, but still outside the Wilderness. Of course, areas inside protected areas (inside National Park gates, for example) would be OK, even next to the road. Maybe a hut at Sunrise would be OK. Ski the road and then ski from there (although I don't know what the avalanche danger is like on that road).