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New non-motorised snoparks

  • RossB
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13 years 10 months ago #204665 by RossB
Replied by RossB on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks
Sorry, but I completely disagree. I share the terrain with snowmobiles all the time. The two big problems are noise and exhaust. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't mind them in the least. It also means that over the years, I simply avoid the snowmobile areas more and more. I'll give you three examples.

I skied the Mountain Loop the Thursday before last. As I had hoped, there were no snowmobiles. It was fantastic. I know this may not be your cup of tea because it is extremely flat, but for cross country skiing it was outstanding. The views are top notch, and the skiing was great. Even without my fastest skis, I was flying. We followed previously laid ski tracks at times, but we also followed snowmobile tracks as well. It was easier on the ski tracks, but the snowmobile tracks were fine.

The second example is Park Butte. I was lucky enough to ski it last Spring. Again, it was on a weekday. We didn't expect to see any snowmobiles, because the snow was below the specified height (at least we think it was). We had a great day, skiing an incredibly beautiful area. The tracks that had been laid previously by the snowmobiles were no problem. The only bad part of the day was when we encountered one snowmobiler. You would think it wouldn't matter, but it was really annoying. They we were, relaxing on top of Park Butte, enjoying one of the finest spots in the Cascades, but rather than enjoy the peaceful sounds of nature, we had to listen to the buzzing and growling of the snow machine.

The last example is Keechulus Ridge. Earlier this year, I went on a snowshoe trip with a couple of friends that aren't skiers. The snow was bad, so I didn't mind using the snowshoes. We encountered a couple of snowmobile riders on the way up, but this wasn't too bad. The exhaust hung in the air for a while, but there was a nice breeze to get rid of it (I've encountered much worse). We had a very nice trip, and enjoyed the great views of the Alpine Lakes Peaks from the top. The problem was, there were plenty of snowmobiles on the top. Despite my bad hearing, it was really annoying. My buddies (who hadn't done much winter outdoor traveling) thought it was terrible. They had a point. So, basically, despite the relatively short distance and the great views, we essentially crossed that one off of the list.

If all these places (and more) were non-snowmobile places on alternate days than I would definitely visit them more often. Of course, if the snowmobiles had exhaust systems that were advanced and had much better mufflers, I wouldn't mind them at all.

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  • Pinch
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13 years 10 months ago #204666 by Pinch
Replied by Pinch on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks

The second example is Park Butte. I was lucky enough to ski it last Spring. Again, it was on a weekday. We didn't expect to see any snowmobiles, because the snow was below the specified height (at least we think it was).


If your trip was indeed last Spring, snowmobiling didn't close until Summer (July 5th or 6th). The FS is up there regularly in the Spring/Summer and closes it once there is 2' near the TH.
FYI- this is the ONLY location in the area that snowmobilers can access the Alpine (terrain above treeline). ALL of the other Alpine terrain is available for your use.

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  • Jim Oker
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13 years 10 months ago - 13 years 10 months ago #204669 by Jim Oker
Replied by Jim Oker on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks

Sorry, but I completely disagree. ...I know this may not be your cup of tea because it is extremely flat, but for cross country skiing it was outstanding.

Please note that I qualified my comment with "at least for skiers who tour in part for turns" - yes, if your game is snowshoeing or kick-and-gliding, you may even find those day-old snowmo tracks to be of great assistance. But if you were hoping to get some turns on that slope that they've fully tracked while highmarking, life is not as good. But as I noted, alternating periods that are longer than a day - even as short as a week - would often suffice to allow "tour for turns" types to find decent turns where snowmobilers had been. And yes, I've seen slopes I'd hoped to ski tracked by 'biles more than once, particularly in the period where folks were starting to buy the more powerful machines that were capable of accessing more terrain. I've sinced learned to modify my ski plans to avoid such areas, though each year I do see some snowmobilers learning to edge into areas such as suprisingly tight and steep trees that I'd thought would always be left for us. I don't have a strong stake in this whole issue, but I can assure you that the "every other day" notion would be next to useless for my purposes. Might as well let 'em keep it every day then, at least from my perspective. For the here-and-there days when I want to get with the dog for some kick-and-glide and don't want to stress over whether the dog gets hit, every-other-day would be helpful, sure.

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  • RossB
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13 years 10 months ago - 13 years 10 months ago #204670 by RossB
Replied by RossB on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks

If your trip was indeed last Spring, snowmobiling didn't close until Summer (July 5th or 6th). The FS is up there regularly in the Spring/Summer and closes it once there is 2' near the TH.
FYI- this is the ONLY location in the area that snowmobilers can access the Alpine (terrain above treeline). ALL of the other Alpine terrain is available for your use.

Right, I had my years wrong. It was mid June, 2010 (Spring). It did look like their was less then the two feet at the trailhead. But I'm not sure how they define it. Some spots had piles of snow, while other spots had bare ground (we carried our skis in spots).

Yes, ALL other Alpine terrain is available for my use, its just that most of it is difficult to get to. I can't think of too many spots that are Alpine (or even Subalpine) that are easy to get to. By easy, I mean stuff that I can ski with Nordic gear. Paradise, Sunrise (when the road is plowed), Artist Point, and that's about it. I'm sure there are more, but they probably take more driving or involve more risk and skill than I want to encounter.

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  • RossB
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13 years 10 months ago #204671 by RossB
Replied by RossB on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks

Please note that I qualified my comment with "at least for skiers who tour in part for turns"

Well, if your main purpose is to find untracked slopes, then I see your point. But I mentioned two other trips that had plenty of possibilities for great turns. I remember the Park Butte area having plenty of terrain with virgin snow, despite the presence of snowmobiles. Yes, they "wrecked" some spots, but there were plenty of other spots that were untouched. I can't imagine anyone being on skis up there and being disappointed with the turns.

My overall point is that while there are plenty of folks who would prefer week (or month) switching back and forth, there are probably a huge number (my guess is a bigger number) who would be just as happy with alternating day by day. One advantage of a day by day switch is that it is easy to remember. For example, Jolly Mountain could be odd, Park Butte could be even, etc.

Perhaps an even better compromise would be alternating year by year. Allow snowmobiles in particular areas on odd or even years. That would be even easier to remember (a person wouldn't forget more than once a year) and solve the situation completely. That would work for me.

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  • Jim Oker
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13 years 10 months ago #204672 by Jim Oker
Replied by Jim Oker on topic Re: New non-motorised snoparks
Probably academic as I don't expect anything along these lines to be implemented any time soon. But if it were, why not do it in a fashion that appealed to as wide a variety of non-motorized recreationalists as possible (i.e. alternate weeks/months/years not days)?

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