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long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
- Pete A
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14 years 10 months ago #199351
by Pete A
Replied by Pete A on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
you seem rather determined to do this trip regardless of the advice & cautions you get here...
have fun, be safe, i'm sure regardless of how far you get, humping an overnight pack with alpine gear is going to be an adventure (i would say a rather unpleasant one though)
if the weather gets bad...turn around, if the snow is deep & sloppy...turn around, if you get tired...turn around.
the mountain will always be there to try again.
have fun, be safe, i'm sure regardless of how far you get, humping an overnight pack with alpine gear is going to be an adventure (i would say a rather unpleasant one though)
if the weather gets bad...turn around, if the snow is deep & sloppy...turn around, if you get tired...turn around.
the mountain will always be there to try again.
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- markharf
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14 years 10 months ago #199355
by markharf
Replied by markharf on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
Goodness.
OP, there is an awful lot here you don't know much about. You seem to think that by thorough research you can discover all the relevant answers....yet the sorts of information you're collecting aren't really terribly important, or even relevant. For example, it doesn't matter whether you choose left or right of the Crescent Glacier; the only reason you'd march right up the center under whatever cornices are present would be if you're climbing in the dark or in whiteout--neither of which you should be doing given your inexperience. Rockfall is not an issue unless you get dangerously off-route. Nor are crevasses a problem as long as you know where you're going and have good visibility (although note that there are large crevasses, hidden in the spring, quite close to the false summit).
I suggest that if you're determined, go right ahead and give it a try. However, do your best to maintain a humble attitude; there are people posting here who are vastly stronger, more skilled and more experienced than you, and it bears remembering that they don't sound very impressed by all your research. That must mean something. It's in your best interest to figure out just what it does mean without endangering yourself or those who might be called to come and rescue you. Really.
Humble attitude means having several layers of fallback plan. What will you do if whited out? What if the weather forecast is iffy for the following day? What if your intent to skin in alpine bindings doesn't work? What if you find yourself postholing up to your waist? What if your legs are tired before dropping into the SW Chutes? What if you get that pre-dawn start from the Lunch Counter, make the summit in a couple of easy hours cramponing on refrozen corn, then find yourself faced with a six hour wait for the snow to soften....in subfreezing temps and 80 mph winds? What if you find yourself facing thousands of feet of steep trap crust on the way down? And so on. Being willing to back off (and having the skills to know when to do so) might turn out to be far more important than knowing which side of the Crescent Glacier to head for.
If properly prepared, maybe you'll hit a spell of good weather and good skiing, and you'll have a great trip and wonder what all the fuss was about. Here's hoping!
Mark
OP, there is an awful lot here you don't know much about. You seem to think that by thorough research you can discover all the relevant answers....yet the sorts of information you're collecting aren't really terribly important, or even relevant. For example, it doesn't matter whether you choose left or right of the Crescent Glacier; the only reason you'd march right up the center under whatever cornices are present would be if you're climbing in the dark or in whiteout--neither of which you should be doing given your inexperience. Rockfall is not an issue unless you get dangerously off-route. Nor are crevasses a problem as long as you know where you're going and have good visibility (although note that there are large crevasses, hidden in the spring, quite close to the false summit).
I suggest that if you're determined, go right ahead and give it a try. However, do your best to maintain a humble attitude; there are people posting here who are vastly stronger, more skilled and more experienced than you, and it bears remembering that they don't sound very impressed by all your research. That must mean something. It's in your best interest to figure out just what it does mean without endangering yourself or those who might be called to come and rescue you. Really.
Humble attitude means having several layers of fallback plan. What will you do if whited out? What if the weather forecast is iffy for the following day? What if your intent to skin in alpine bindings doesn't work? What if you find yourself postholing up to your waist? What if your legs are tired before dropping into the SW Chutes? What if you get that pre-dawn start from the Lunch Counter, make the summit in a couple of easy hours cramponing on refrozen corn, then find yourself faced with a six hour wait for the snow to soften....in subfreezing temps and 80 mph winds? What if you find yourself facing thousands of feet of steep trap crust on the way down? And so on. Being willing to back off (and having the skills to know when to do so) might turn out to be far more important than knowing which side of the Crescent Glacier to head for.
If properly prepared, maybe you'll hit a spell of good weather and good skiing, and you'll have a great trip and wonder what all the fuss was about. Here's hoping!
Mark
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- markharf
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14 years 10 months ago #199362
by markharf
Good question. You're attracting a lot of feedback which, as far as I can tell, you don't find helpful. This might be due to certain nosy, intrusive, even controlling tendencies....or to other factors, the precise nature of which might be interesting for you to contemplate. For my part, I'm satisfied with what I've already said, and I really do wish you a fun trip. In the right conditions Adams is a great day out in the mountains.
Enjoy!
Mark
Replied by markharf on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
why should you care?
Good question. You're attracting a lot of feedback which, as far as I can tell, you don't find helpful. This might be due to certain nosy, intrusive, even controlling tendencies....or to other factors, the precise nature of which might be interesting for you to contemplate. For my part, I'm satisfied with what I've already said, and I really do wish you a fun trip. In the right conditions Adams is a great day out in the mountains.
Enjoy!
Mark
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- Jim Oker
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199366
by Jim Oker
Replied by Jim Oker on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
Have fun and be safe on your trip. FWIW Amar and Corey are folk I'd pay good attention to regarding advice on volcano routes (in fact, the only time I've encountered Corey was up on the summit of Adams before he headed down I believe the Lyman Glacier for its first descent - or almost first - might have been slightly behind some of his pals). Probably more so than many rangers I've encountered (I'm sure there are a few rangers who have similar levels of BC ski experience, but we also regularly get some puzzling advice from some park rangers, particularly the ones answering phones at the lowland office). That said, I'm sure that both these guys have done some of their ambitious routes despite the contrary input of someone.
I was struck by the apparent contrast in the following passages:
Given your admirable approach to research, you likely also know that this trip won't give you an iota of acclimatization for your Rainier trip. It may give you some sense of how you'll fare camping at Muir, but even one person's response to camping and exerting at altitude can vary significantly from one trip to another based on a variety of factors. With that in mind, I strongly second the notion of camping much lower and returning to camp to scoop your overnight gear. I think this would likely leave you with more energy and time than humping it all over the summit, and as Amar notes it will be safer (which seems like a higher order decision-making factor if solo). If you have two weeks in the region, maybe go spend a night at Muir too if you have a good weather window and you'll get your "camp at Muir elevation" epxerience that way? Another thought, if the climb is really your objective and the ski down mere bonus, is to skip the chutes and descend your ascent route so that you have a more moderate route down with that beast upon your back (and so you won't be surprised by wildly different surface conditions halfway down the chutes while you're laboring like a lead turtle). You could leave the overnight gear at the lunch counter and still get your "sleep high" experience and a pack weight that's close to what you'll have on Rainier for what you ski above camp.
I was struck by the apparent contrast in the following passages:
I hope this does not reflect too-strong a goal orientation, and rather just a reflection of the typical flow of emotions when online discussions get beyond "nice." You likely know that goal orientation, while spurring folks to great achievements, is also the cause of a great many mountain tragedies. Pete A gave great advice in that regard....trust me, I'm plenty humble about it ... If anything, everyone has given me even more motivation to prove them wrong...
Given your admirable approach to research, you likely also know that this trip won't give you an iota of acclimatization for your Rainier trip. It may give you some sense of how you'll fare camping at Muir, but even one person's response to camping and exerting at altitude can vary significantly from one trip to another based on a variety of factors. With that in mind, I strongly second the notion of camping much lower and returning to camp to scoop your overnight gear. I think this would likely leave you with more energy and time than humping it all over the summit, and as Amar notes it will be safer (which seems like a higher order decision-making factor if solo). If you have two weeks in the region, maybe go spend a night at Muir too if you have a good weather window and you'll get your "camp at Muir elevation" epxerience that way? Another thought, if the climb is really your objective and the ski down mere bonus, is to skip the chutes and descend your ascent route so that you have a more moderate route down with that beast upon your back (and so you won't be surprised by wildly different surface conditions halfway down the chutes while you're laboring like a lead turtle). You could leave the overnight gear at the lunch counter and still get your "sleep high" experience and a pack weight that's close to what you'll have on Rainier for what you ski above camp.
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- andyski
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14 years 10 months ago #199367
by andyski
Replied by andyski on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
FWIW, the ski down the S. Climb route is underrated. It's very fun route to ski. I've done it as a backup when the chutes were socked in or something and not been disappointed.
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- super yeti
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14 years 10 months ago #199374
by super yeti
Replied by super yeti on topic Re: long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?
There is so much bad idea to this.
The equivalent would be if I read alot of stuff on the internet about, say, Tuckerman's Ravine across the country. Never been there. Then, I looked at pictures online. Then, I asked knowledgable locals to take time out to give advice...which I will then disregard. Then, when I do go to Tuck's...I will bring inapproriate equipment and expect phenomenal results.
Amar nails it on so many levels; probably the biggest? No experience skiing 8k with 50+lbs of pack, regardless of it being pow, corn, boilerplate, mank, etc. Nevermind large mountain navigation, self rescue, etc. Corey...who has crushed it by skiing the Stormy Monday couloir on Adams, even weighs in on 3 classic ski objectives that would be equal, and more joyous. Radio silence. Want to train for a guided summer Rainier climb? Do the Muir Snowfield top to bottom for 2 days straight.
I almost called troll on this much earlier because of all the gaping holes. Best of luck, warn the SAR team.
The equivalent would be if I read alot of stuff on the internet about, say, Tuckerman's Ravine across the country. Never been there. Then, I looked at pictures online. Then, I asked knowledgable locals to take time out to give advice...which I will then disregard. Then, when I do go to Tuck's...I will bring inapproriate equipment and expect phenomenal results.
Amar nails it on so many levels; probably the biggest? No experience skiing 8k with 50+lbs of pack, regardless of it being pow, corn, boilerplate, mank, etc. Nevermind large mountain navigation, self rescue, etc. Corey...who has crushed it by skiing the Stormy Monday couloir on Adams, even weighs in on 3 classic ski objectives that would be equal, and more joyous. Radio silence. Want to train for a guided summer Rainier climb? Do the Muir Snowfield top to bottom for 2 days straight.
I almost called troll on this much earlier because of all the gaping holes. Best of luck, warn the SAR team.
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