long slog via 8040/CS versus 8020/lava flows?

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Brian, I'm hesitant to be critical of someone who is obviously new at this and very eager to get into ski mountaineering, but these posts (and all of your previous ones on this same subject) show that you are quite confused about Mt Adams and its routes. Your level of displayed inexperience and incorrect thinking, combined with a willingness to solo when your skills and experience are not sufficient to do so safely on a 12000 ft glaciated volcano in May, is extremely worrisome. Coming from the east coast with a limited number of days, you're more likely to push it in marginal weather too, which will lead to trouble (a week-and-half is not much, the weather could be marginal or bad the whole time). Please realize that late-May is often still winter conditions at high elevations on Adams and Rainier, spring conditions typically don't arrive until June or even as late as mid-July some years.

I think that others here on TAY have just been too Northwest-nice to respond to you as sternly as appears to be necessary (I'm sure many others who have read your posts have been shaking their heads silently), but I'll try to respond and help. Please take the following as constructive criticism, that is its intent.

By the way, it's not good to start so many different threads on the same subject -- you should have kept all of your followup posts in a single thread, which would benefit you and anyone else who posts while trying to help you out. The first one is OK being separate, since it's in "Planned Trips: partners wanted":
* Mt Adams Memorial Day weekend (end of May): www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=19106.0

But these 4 topics should all have been a single thread, since they're all in "Random Tracks" and all really about the same subject (your questions about Adams approach routes):
* forest service rd 8040 turnarounds: www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=19181.0
* question about Cold Springs campground at Mt Adams: www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=19453.0
* Mt Adams cross-country route question: www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=19601.0
* this current thread

You keep asking questions about forest roads and cross country routes, but that is all irrelevant. Your basic premise is so badly flawed that none of that other stuff matters: You want to camp at Lunch Counter, summit, and then ski out the Southwest Chutes and all the way down past Morrison Creek CG -- but that makes no sense at all. This means that you're planning to break camp at Lunch Counter, carry all of your overnight gear to the summit, then ski down a 38-40 degree steep route with your 50+ lb pack?? That's a certain way to ruin the fun of the ski decent (skiing with a heavy pack sucks), and perhaps end up badly injured too. This is a steep and potentially hazardous route, despite its popularity. If conditions are too firm or too soft (most likely it will be BOTH in the same run at different elevations), you could fall and take an uncontrollable slide on firm snow, or trench too deeply into softened mush and blow a knee. Skiing steeps with a heavy pack should be done only if absolutely necessary, it is best to avoid it.

A much more sensible plan would be to camp near 6200 ft (the former Timberline campground), summit with a light pack, ski the Southwest Chutes in style and enjoyment, then return to camp via either the high traverse which starts near 7000 ft at the outlet from SW Chutes, or via the RTM trail lower down. Not sure where you "read in numerous posts the RTM trail can be somewhat of a rather nasty bushwhack", but that is not true. There is no real bushwhacking anywhere above 6000 ft on Adams, the forest is much too open and provides easy travel. The RTM trail is a nice pleasant trail when snowfree, but around Memorial Day there will still be 10-15 ft of snow (or more) covering it, so bushwhacking is not even remotely possible. It will be easy snow travel, but you will have to navigate entirely on your own, there will be no trail to follow and probably no evidence of a trail either. And anyone who can summit from Lunch Counter (9400 ft) carrying a heavy overnight pack is also capable of summiting with a light day pack from 6200 ft instead, it will actually be less effort and much more enjoyable.

Then you ask about this: "thoughts on the safety of going straight up from Lunch Counter to Piker's Peak versus booting it up on the ridge on the left and go early enough in the morning to avoid rockfall? I'd need to boot up either route anyway since I only have kicker skins. Granted, a lot will change with the snow between now and the end of May but that PWL will likely still be there, thought I'd get your take on it. I can dig a snow pit and check, etc, but I'm no expert." These questions are really worrisome in the lack of knowledge and misguidedness they display. What rockfall? What are you talking about? The entire route will be BURIED in snow, plus there isn't any significant rockfall along the route or its left edge even in late-summer. And the likelihood of a huge deep-slab avalanche on the old PWL running down the South Rib route is too remote to even think about, it's not something that is a concern compared to so many other issues you're having. You shouldn't worry about PWLs and snowpits when you don't have the basic avalanche knowledge to realize that all of that is irrelevant on that route. You can NOT dig a snowpit to "check" a PWL (especially one that may be buried 10 ft deep), it just doesn't work that way.

And you're coming all the way here to ski Adams, and you don't even have a normal full pair of skins?? You need to get full skins, booting may not necessarily be an option or even possible, you could be post-holing knee-deep or waist-deep in May, depending on snow conditions.  And I'm concerned what type of ski gear you're planning to use too, based on the fact that you have only kicker skins -- are you on some kind of lightweight cross-country touring skis? If you are, then that is not appropriate for such a steep route -- you need a solid stiff plastic boot and a downhill-capable ski setup, either heavyweight telemark or alpine touring. Even the South Rib on Adams is steep enough to require such gear (30+ degrees). Hopefully that's what you were already planning to bring.

And this 8020 vs 8040 stuff -- I've never heard of anybody going in via 8020, why do you think that's a good approach? You seem to want to reinvent the wheel, but don't notice that your entire cart is already falling to pieces (i.e. you're worried about inventing novel approach routes, but don't realize that the main parts of your plan are completely flawed). You keep asking "how dense the trees really are" in one of your other threads, but you're clearly not seeing the forest here.

You would be much better off going with more experienced partners who can help you and keep you out of trouble (IF you listen to them), rather than attempting to solo this 12000 ft glaciated volcano under late-May conditions (near-winter conditions, more than likely). There is glaciated terrain, crevasses, huge cornices, and steep cliffs only a few yards off the normal climbing route, and you could easily end up wandering into such areas if poor weather moves in. Adams is most certainly not Pikes Peak, it is an entirely different type of mountain and not comparable in any way. You might have a better chance of finding partners if you post in "Planned Trips: partners wanted" within 1-2 weeks of your trip, posting 4 months early is likely to get the non-response that you got. If you do repost, it would be nice if you do it in the same thread that you already started.

The south side of Mt St Helens would be a much better ski route at your apparent level of experience (stay well back from the cornices on the rim), as would the Muir Snowfield if the weather is clear and stable (not otherwise, too many cliffs and crevasses just near that route too, with many fatalities over the years). But you're going to want to have full skins on either of those too, although you could get by without if snow conditions have consolidated.

If you really want to ski Adams so badly (and especially if you intend to solo it), it would be much better to plan for late June or even July, when conditions will be much more consolidated and spring-like, with a much better chance of good weather. Adams should still offer a ski descent of over 7500 vert down to Morrison Creek in mid-June, and over 6000 vert into mid-July this year.

Sorry if my response is too harsh or offends you, but after careful consideration, I felt that someone just had to say something to you openly about your plans. I hope you'll rethink and reevaluate your plans, then choose something which makes sense and is within your skill and experience level, so that you'll have a great and enjoyable trip, not one which is memorable for all the wrong reasons, or which requires a rescue.

Amar has some good advice and you should listen to it.  He's probably been to the top of Adams on skis as much as anyone.

I wouldn't be quite as pessimistic about your odds.  Some years, summer can start Mid-May.  In 2009 I skied corn on the N side of Baker to 9k, and S side of Rainier to 12.5k around May 20th (above which the snow was still quite wintry).  And a quick search of the TAY archives finds a number of  trips that have summited late May, although they are certainly the minority.

But on the other hand, Adams would be my last choice of objectives if we had the May that we had last year.  For all except perhaps one or two days, it would have been miserable and uninteresting at best, and probably dangerous, too.  So I would highly encourage you to make your decision based on the weather, rather than coming with pre-laid plans.  No amount of preparation or research will make 100 mph winds and a whiteout more pleasant or less dangerous, which is what the crux of your trip will most likely be, rather than where to turn your car around, or whether or not to go X-C to cut road switchbacks.

If you are looking for adventurous slog and want to go solo, what about circumnavigating Crater Lake?  You will probably not see a soul once you get a couple miles past the visitor center.  They may have started plowing it by late May, though.  The Goat rocks or the Pasayten Wilderness could be an interesting spot to hang out for a week in late May, as well, and certainly will deliver some sloggy goodness.  In any case, I recommend you come armed with backup plans, and exercise them judiciously.

I'm one of those who has been a little mystified by your obsession, as Amar alludes to in his post. I think I may have even posted in one of your earlier threads. Your determination is admirable, that's for sure and though he is correct to mention the dangers, I'm sure you could pull it off, even without skins. You could do without them booting up the south rib, but you would likely want them for the lower elevations, mostly just for more joyous travel.

It's just this - why add 5-8 miles and some elevation when there are better choices to begin with? To be frank, I think the SW chutes are a bit overrated. If you want a similarly long run at a similar slope angle check out Cascadian Coulior on Mt. Stuart. It's a better run with cooler scenery. You'd probably be able to skin from the car on the S side of Baker, or a short hike on the N side. Boulder-Park cleaver on the E side of Baker is another option with awesome scenery and good ski terrain. Depending on snopack there may still some very cool options off the N Cascades Hwy, or you could head a little more south to Hood which has skin from the car terrain on the S side or reasonable access (certainly less hiking than Adams in May) on the N side. I'm sure others could pipe in with some other great choices, they are endless.

Amar is also correct to point out that you could get skunked weather wise at that time of year. That's certainly true, but it's also possible that you could have bluebird the whole time. If so, you would easily have time to do multiple routes all over the Cascades. From where I sit, 3 different cool day trips sound funner than one 3 day suffer fest.

FWIW, IMHO, listen to Amar, follow his advice; he is knowledgeable and very experienced. My wife and I have often camped well below lunch counter, then climbed, skied down and picked up our camping gear, and skied out. If you can not afford AT gear, certainly you can afford to rent AT skis and skins--it will make life and the trip so much more pleasant and safe; you can rent the gear in the Seattle area and even in Ashford (at the Nisqually Entrance to Mt. Rainier).

If I can do Piker's Peak with a 65lb pack, I know can do Rainier summit with a 30-40lb pack. 

You mean Piker's Peak with a 65lb pack wearing alpine ski boots... from Cold Springs? Um, yeah.

Brian, many people training for climbing Rainier and other summits train with conditioning hikes that offer a lot of vertical. One example of this in my area is a trail called Mt. Defiance in the Gorge. What I propose is, Starting at river level, you hike Defiance and back in one day and report back in this thread your experience. Leave your ski boots at home...