Spokesman-Review- "Snowmobilers desecrate..."

Hopefully the skiers can unite and start talking with the FS and sno-mo groups. The panhandle is moto-head country and it's tough to picture them being kicked out of an area. Unfortunately, it really only leaves bc skiers with the option to get a sled and go past the tracks... that's how many places in CO and MT are.

I've been to a few locales that have a working compromise b/n skiers and sno-mos, but none without nearby/bordering wilderness.

I think "desecrate" was a poor choice of words. But I don't see anything wrong with managing lands for fair recreational access in winter.

Asking snowmobilers and skiers to share the same slopes is like asking gill-netters and fly-fisherman to share the same streams. One user group has an insurmountable advantage over the other. They're not compatible.

I don't know the Lookout Pass area. Is there wilderness nearby? If not, there's a strong case for managing forest lands to segregate skiers and snowmobiles. It's only fair.

Hopefully the skiers can unite and start talking with the FS and sno-mo groups.  The panhandle is moto-head country and it's tough to picture them being kicked out of an area.  Unfortunately, it really only leaves bc skiers with the option to get a sled and go past the tracks... that's how many places in CO and MT are. 

I've been to a few locales that have a working compromise b/n skiers and sno-mos, but none without nearby/bordering wilderness.

The article above illustrates that these issues are common throughout many Forests. There is considerable activity by backcountry non-motorized activists as well as new attention toward these issues by prominent Organizations.

The Wenatchee Mountains Coalition came together last year. The goal of WMC is to ask backcountry skiers to weigh in with USFS to ask for accessible and more quality Forest areas to be designated as winter non-motorized. Our effort is focused on our local area, the Wenatchee Mountains which by the historic usage is the divide between the Wenatchee Valley and the Kittitas to the south.  Here is a recent article about our efforts- www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/21163

Outside of Wilderness much of the winter Forest has become Snowmobile National Forest, with that activity dominating. This author rides a snowmobile 40+ days per year to ride out Forest Roads to access skitouring, and has done so for 25 years. In that time advanced snowmobile technology has resulted in widespread riding off-road that has not been planned, evaluated, allowed, or disallowed, reasonable management basically ignored.  What is needed is management, which we have learned is at this time defined as limited to the "groomed and ungroomed roads and routes" although we have not seen EIS type analysis to allow that.

Why is there the situation that in winter, motorized vehicles travel unchecked, without Enforcement all over the Forest? In summer we drive to a Trailhead, hike a Trail and unless designated for motorcycles we know that there will not be any motorized vehicles beyond the Trailhead.

Our effort is not intended to "shut down" snowmobile riding on the Forest. We are accused of "taking" and making a "land grab," but the fact is, there has never been consideration or designation for dispersed off-road snowmobile riding on the Forest (in the area of our Proposals). In fact the "taking" of pristine and quiet Forest lands has been from us, the non-motorized Forest users! An interesting point is to consider whether when properly analyzed under current legal framework, would two-stroke snowmobiles be justified or allowed to ride unchecked over pristine and roadless Forest?  In discussions with many in  USFS and in various Organizations, it appears that for USFS to solve this problem would likely result in costly litigation from very-well funded and organized motorized interests. Thus, up to this point, no management of the dispersed snowmobile riding, no designation or decision to manage the recreational resource, not to mention the effects on the physical resources and wildlife. What we ask is for the winter Forest to be managed for the conflicting uses, similar to how hikers, horsemen, motorcycles, mountain bikers, 4 x 4 driving, are managed. USFS in some cases assigns camp spots, and we all know of the long lists of Regulations for Wilderness and other examples. We propose that management of the winter recreational resource is needed, instead of free-for-all in which 160+ HP machines will dominate the snowy Forest.

"When The snow melts can you show me where they've gone" X

"When The snow melts can you show me where they've gone" X

Exactly what I was thinking...... They don't manage snowmobiles the same as motorcycles and/or jeeps because there is very little, if any harm to the forest beyond noise and making tracks in the snow.

As far as the "free for all", that is not the case in the forest. As mentioned numerous times in prior threads, ski touring is allowed anywhere, snowmobiles are not. If you don't want to listen to them, or go in their tracks then tour where they are not allowed. If snowmobiles traverse into banned areas, well that is a different subject. As I've said also before, I am not a snowmobile rider and haven't been on one since the 80's but I'll back their right to ride where it is legal.

Anytime WMC talks of forest management that is another phrase for 'ban snowmobiles in the forest'. How about they just ban ski touring in snowmobile allowed areas? That will end the conflicting uses, problem solved.

anyone know how the Turnagain Pass area in AK implemented its policy of giving the terrain on the south side of the highway (ie-all the roadside north facing terrain) to skiers/boarders and the opposite side of the hwy to snowmobilers?  When I was up there a few years ago it seemed like a really nice arrangement that gave everyone tons of terrain free from conflicts.