bc travel: danger of groups

Agreed... the large group matter is a touchy one.
Typically when more than 3 or 4 show up at the trailhead for a tour that I am a part of, after the normal "trailhead meeting", I suggest that we break up into smaller groups. For simplicity, I suggest that each group be the occupants of the vehicle that got them there.  That seems to work pretty good. It makes it easier for each group to change destinations, speeds, take breaks, etc and otherwise self manage. If some groups choose to tag along with another, that's their choice. Each person just needs to arrive back at the car with the same people the came with; so those are the main ones they're watching out for

This is not about the dangers of groups but rather the notion that there is necessarily safety in groups or numbers or skiiing in bounds...

(Courtesy of firsttracksonline.com) Dec 31, 2010: Nelson (BC), Canada - An experienced snowboarder visiting Retallack Lodge cat skiing near Nelson fell head first on Wednesday and suffocated to death.

The unidentified 32-year-old woman, said to have resided in southeastern British Columbia, was on a guided cat skiing trip when she was noticed missing. The group's guide hiked back uphill and used his avalanche transceiver to locate the victim in the snow, partially buried face first.

The victim was not swept up in an avalanche. Rather, she appeared to have simply fallen and suffocated to death in the deep snow. She was unconscious when found and guides administered CPR without success.
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It was a dangerous week. Other stories:

Dec 30, 2010 "Teen Skier in Critical Condition After Falling in Montana Tree Well" in bounds at Whitefish, MT

Dec 30, 2010 "Ski Instructor Hits Tree, Dies at Montana's Discovery"

Dec 31, 2010 "Two Skiers Survive Two Avalanches Near Montana Snowbowl" out of bounds

Dec 30, 2010 "Missing Tahoe Snowboarder Found Dead" separated from friends and out of bounds and found in a tree well (though that may not have been the cause of death)

Dec 28, 2010 "Mountain High Snowboarder Crashes Into Trees, Dies"

Dec 28, 2010 "Autopsy Sheds No Light on Cause of Death of Snowboarder on Oregon's Mt. Hood"

Dec 28, 2010 "California Snowboarder Found Dead at Blackcomb" in bounds and apparently fell upside down in a creek and drowned

Dec 26, 2010 Casper, WY - "A 5-year-old girl and a 22-year-old man are dead and the girl's mother injured following a skier collision at Hogadon Ski Area in Wyoming on Christmas Eve."

(From firsttrracksonline.com) Authorities with the Natrona County sheriff's department indicate that the girl, Elise Johnson, was stopped on the slopes as her mother, 31-year-old Kelli Johnson, was attempting to reattach her skis when both were struck by snowboarder Craig Shirley. All were transported to Wyoming Medical Center where both Elise Johnson and Shirley were pronounced dead of blunt force trauma.

As of Monday night, Kelli Johnson remained at Wyoming Medical Center. Her condition has not been released.

Witnesses indicate that Shirley was snowboarding at a high speed on the Dreadnaught run, rated with a black diamond, when the incident occurred. A media release issued by the Johnson family indicated that Elise Johnson had been skiing for three years and that Kelli Johnson was an accomplished skier and instructor.

Yes, the bigger a group you're in and the closer you stick together, the more of you who will be hurt or killed by the out-of-control young-but-full-grown-male in the mogul field.

item 10 I think plays a huge role in group safety and dynamics. I annually tour with a large group in the Wallowas each year where GD has been essential. I think its important for daily morning meetings where everyone participates in a discussion about expectations, gear/equipment, buddy system, weather, experience level, comfort level... it all needs to be out in the open. Out in the field is not the time to discover the weakest link. The key here is everyone participates in the discussion, questions need to be asked each person.  In a good group, the discussion strengthens GD. The interesting part is when the discussion brings out attitudes... especially from "experienced" members. In light of offending someone, you at least have the option of not going on the tour.

regarding impromptu ski tours where strangers get invited I agree with Acarey about no longer leading those trips, and I usually stop inviting newbies for a while... I know that when I get invited I avoid bringing a tag along. I feel it's important to work myself into a new group (or new partner) to learn and observe and I expect the same. As a result, I have integrated well into my Wallowas group that I have been touring with annually for years now and lucky for me some very experienced SAR members, skiers, mountaineers I've learned much from.

Picking up new ski partners is a difficult business. I've found that if I'm going with someone new I either treat the trip as I would a solo trip or I bring along a partner I trust. If I'm going out with a new group as a tag-along I try to make it clear from the start that if I'm not comfortable with the trip then I won't continue as part of the group.

as for item 10 and mountaineers club trips that is a whole different thread....

Discussions here tend to focus on the high profile avalanche incidents. I suspect (although I have no data to back up this claim) that more back country deaths occur as a result of what many people would consider routine incidents (heart attacks, tree/rock impact, minor injuries (broken bone, torn ligaments) that become major due to time / distance to help, exposure, etc.) It would be awesome if someone has a source of data to confirm or refute this.

The point I'm getting at is that these types of "routine" incidents may be much more common than we'd assume. They are also incidents that can be much more easily dealt with and mitigated when traveling with a group of two or more.

I think we can all agree that those caught in avalanches often have poor outcomes whether traveling solo or in a group.

When considering whether it's better to travel solo or in a group it's important to take into account the likelihood of a given risk.

I agree with all the prior statements that you should know your stuff and stick to your guns to avoid being swayed by risky group dynamics.