bc travel: danger of groups

There is a good thread below on solo travel; some argue that it is too dangerous; however, there often is increased total danger in groups.

1. In groups more people are at risk.
2. Group dynamics (GD) studies show that groups are often dominated by the strongest personality, not necessarily the most competent one.
  a. More competent but passive individuals may not only fail to speak up but will go along.
  b. Less or equally competent people may defer to the dominant person.
3. GD show that group think (group dogma that is false) is common in groups that are homogeneous.
4. GD shows there is often diffusion of responsibility in groups (individuals don't accept their own responsibility fully).
5. GD shows that people often assume a group action is correct even if they would not perform that action when alone.
6. Competition often arises in groups (e.g., who can ski the steepest slope).
7. Some feel compelled to show off in groups (by skiing the steepest slope).
8. Multiple people can easily overload a slope that one person can easily traverse or ski.
9. If one person gets hurt/buried/sick, then severe physical and emotional stress can be placed on multiple people (who might be required to spend more time under adverse conditions than they are physically prepared for) and multiple people can become sick, injured, or die.
10. In many cases (esp., IMHE, Mountaineer groups), the larger the group, the less likely one or more are not prepared (physically, skills, equipment, clothing) to face the forthcoming conditions and the less likely these people will speak up or be identified at the trailhead, putting the entire group at greater risk (one reason why the Mountaineers have the 10 essentials, trip ratings, skill and gear level required, etc., but as a one-time trip leader, I found it so common unprepared people showed up that I stopped leading trips).

None of this is new, and much is addressed in various tomes, videos, and classes on avalanche safety; but it is worth repeating again and again; and I'm sure there are other risks, too.  Pls add.

p.s.: as a Wilderness 1st Responder and as one who has had an intensive course in avalanche safety and rescue, I firmly believe that avoiding injury and avalanches are paramount and that surviving a life-threatening injury or deep burial in the backcountry in the winter is problematic even with a good size group.

Often in a group, when less experienced persons are looking to the more experienced for leadership, the de facto leader will feel the need to be decisive even if they are unsure of the best course of action. Then there are those who act as leaders but lack any common sense. The only thing worse than leading a Mountaineers trip is being on one that someone else is leading .

Often in a group, when less experienced persons are looking to the more experienced for leadership, the de facto leader will feel the need to be decisive even if they are unsure of the best course of action.  Then there are those who act as leaders but lack any common sense.  The only thing worse than leading a Mountaineers trip is being on one that someone else is leading .

Except when being led by RonJ, a man of great experience, talent, training, and with a GPS with all known reference points on it ... and a few others, I'm sure.

Great post and it really augments my solo perspective nicely. I think a group of fools is certainly more dangerous than a solo traveler with common sense and reasonable caution! As a primarily solo traveler, I often mistrust large groups unless the leader has some time tested credentials. My personal preference is a group consisting of 2 to 4 people. I think some of the dangers of huge group thinking is somewhat mitigated by partnerships and very small groups. Human psychology can really throw a big old monkey wrench into thing for sure.

All of the above can of course be true, depending on the group (the fact that you're better off not getting injured or buried in the first place is of course true regardless of the group). Pick your group carefully, and be conscious of your own thought processes and how the group is influencing them. If you can't bear to speak up with a contrary voice when you are not liking a group decision, you have a problem. If you don't even realize you had a contrary leaning until after the fact, you have a problem. If you aren't thinking for yourself when skiing in a group, you have a problem.

I prefer smaller groups unless skiing guided in the guide's terrain (mostly hut trips in BC, where the guide was helpful both for safety and powder sniffing). The few times I've been out with un-guided groups of more than 4-6, the group ended up fracturing anyway, but not in fully positive ways in all cases.

Sure, if you're buried or hurt out there in winter, you are going to have a tough time. But the odds are going to be a little better if there is someone there to dig you out, to bundle you up, to mark the location and call or head out for assistance, etc. I took a winter first aid class from some folks who run SAR out of North Conway, NH (one of whom was an M.D. who also dealt with the aftermath of the incidents when more medical care was required). They have dealt with a great many winter incidents. One of the big winter hazards they talked about was loss of circulation due to broken bones. The cases they described of solo travellers with broken bones didn't work out nearly as well as the cases where the victim had someone with them who knew how to reduce the fracture and knew to focus on bundling that area up really well in addition to dealing with overall body warmth. This is not the first aid that the red cross teaches you, where you assume you're getting someone ready for a handy ambulance. There are risks in reducing fractures, but worse risks in not doing so out in the field in winter. These SAR folks didn't say "don't travel solo," but based on all they'd seen, they strongly preferred travel in groups of 4-6 (with 4 one can stay with the victim while 2 go for help).

As I noted on the TR that led to the solo travel thread, I believe that in the groups with which I tend to tour, the decision-making tradeoffs are a wash (some positive influence, some of the less positive GD to which acarey refers, including peer pressure, which can be subtle, pushing folks past their comfort level and the Abilene Paradox). But I believe that on net, both safety and fun can be improved with a well-partner or three.

As for group loading of slopes, there is of course a relatively easy way to avoid this hazard even in the largest of groups (though in large groups it takes time).

10. In many cases (esp., IMHE, Mountaineer groups), the larger the group, the less likely one or more are not prepared (physically, skills, equipment, clothing) to face the forthcoming conditions and the less likely these people will speak up or be identified at the trailhead, putting the entire group at greater risk (one reason why the Mountaineers have the 10 essentials, trip ratings, skill and gear level required, etc., but as a one-time trip leader, I found it so common unprepared people showed up that I stopped leading trips).

item 10 I think plays a huge role in group safety and dynamics. I annually tour with a large group in the Wallowas each year where GD has been essential. I think its important for daily morning meetings where everyone participates in a discussion about expectations, gear/equipment, buddy system, weather, experience level, comfort level... it all needs to be out in the open. Out in the field is not the time to discover the weakest link. The key here is everyone participates in the discussion, questions need to be asked each person. In a good group, the discussion strengthens GD. The interesting part is when the discussion brings out attitudes... especially from "experienced" members. In light of offending someone, you at least have the option of not going on the tour.

regarding impromptu ski tours where strangers get invited I agree with Acarey about no longer leading those trips, and I usually stop inviting newbies for a while... I know that when I get invited I avoid bringing a tag along. I feel it's important to work myself into a new group (or new partner) to learn and observe and I expect the same. As a result, I have integrated well into my Wallowas group that I have been touring with annually for years now and lucky for me some very experienced SAR members, skiers, mountaineers I've learned much from.