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Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
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15 years 7 months ago #193225
by all mtn
Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P. was created by all mtn
- A grad. student from Stanford Univ. was solo-climbing with a partner, when she took a fatal fall on the Eichorn Pinnacle. Christina Chan and her partner were on Cathedral Pk. (Tuolumne Mdws.). They then went over to the nearby Eichorn Pinnacle, where the accident occured. An article said she was a very dynamic person. She was head of Stanford's Alpine club.
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- telemack
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15 years 6 months ago #193298
by telemack
Replied by telemack on topic Re: Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
Soloing crisp granite like that is very seductive. Most longtime climbers have pushed the boat out free soloing a little bit, and have scared themselves. Anyone who doesn't seriously moderate their ropeless rock habit is asking for it. I could have been her a few times in my years of rock climbing, and I feel for all.
Anyone ever thought on the relative danger AND attraction of free soloing vs. skiing steep, exposed faces?
Anyone ever thought on the relative danger AND attraction of free soloing vs. skiing steep, exposed faces?
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- Stugie
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15 years 6 months ago #193299
by Stugie
Replied by Stugie on topic Re: Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
First and foremost, condolences to the friends and family. The climbing world is much the same as the skiing and a loss is always a sad event.
Being as this is a skiing forum though, I think you have an interesting question telemack...
I've hung up my ski gear for a while (since May) and have been focused mainly on climbing and surfing this summer. While climbing granite up at W. Pass I relayed a story about how my first time leading trad and multipitch in Eldorado Canyon, CO (1997) I was passed by a man free soloing a much more difficult route to my side. Wide-eyed I stared and he greeted my awe with a "Hello, beautiful day to be out isn't it? Enjoy your climb!" as he pressed on, quickly dipping for a bit of chalk. It was a bit awe inspiring and gave me some newfound courage to tackle the psychological game on the measley 5.6 (Recon, Wind Tower) I was on.
Since then I've definitely pulled some of the same type of behavior on various climbs or mountaineering trips. Being a climber and mountaineer first, who has learned to incorporate skiing into the agenda after "discovering" the PNW, I would have to say that many steep skiers instill that same type of courageous inspiration when I look at the stuff they're skiing. Dan Helmstadter, Lee, Hummels, Kyle Miller to name a few...and in a way I feel like the same principles are in effect. They have immense backgrounds and experience, yet some of the stuff they jump on is hair-raising at least. I would say it's similar in the psychological aspect, however, the risk factor is much more calculated. With free soloing I feel the options boil down to you fall or you don't. Steep skiing, especially when exposed or inudated with possible dangers, there are a number of precautions one can still take: safe zones, avy safety, proper arresting techniques, roped skiing to probe a particular snowpack, skiing with a partner, pits and RB. I guess one could argue that those are only psychologically stabilizing factors, but the risk is the same.
Being as this is a skiing forum though, I think you have an interesting question telemack...
I've hung up my ski gear for a while (since May) and have been focused mainly on climbing and surfing this summer. While climbing granite up at W. Pass I relayed a story about how my first time leading trad and multipitch in Eldorado Canyon, CO (1997) I was passed by a man free soloing a much more difficult route to my side. Wide-eyed I stared and he greeted my awe with a "Hello, beautiful day to be out isn't it? Enjoy your climb!" as he pressed on, quickly dipping for a bit of chalk. It was a bit awe inspiring and gave me some newfound courage to tackle the psychological game on the measley 5.6 (Recon, Wind Tower) I was on.
Since then I've definitely pulled some of the same type of behavior on various climbs or mountaineering trips. Being a climber and mountaineer first, who has learned to incorporate skiing into the agenda after "discovering" the PNW, I would have to say that many steep skiers instill that same type of courageous inspiration when I look at the stuff they're skiing. Dan Helmstadter, Lee, Hummels, Kyle Miller to name a few...and in a way I feel like the same principles are in effect. They have immense backgrounds and experience, yet some of the stuff they jump on is hair-raising at least. I would say it's similar in the psychological aspect, however, the risk factor is much more calculated. With free soloing I feel the options boil down to you fall or you don't. Steep skiing, especially when exposed or inudated with possible dangers, there are a number of precautions one can still take: safe zones, avy safety, proper arresting techniques, roped skiing to probe a particular snowpack, skiing with a partner, pits and RB. I guess one could argue that those are only psychologically stabilizing factors, but the risk is the same.
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- Lowell_Skoog
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15 years 6 months ago #193301
by Lowell_Skoog
I have said for a long time that I feel that the two are essentially the same.
The key difference, as I see it, is that steep skiing has been embraced by the outdoor industry and community in a way that free soloing has not. In my view, this represents a moral breakdown.
Replied by Lowell_Skoog on topic Re: Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
Anyone ever thought on the relative danger AND attraction of free soloing vs. skiing steep, exposed faces?
I have said for a long time that I feel that the two are essentially the same.
The key difference, as I see it, is that steep skiing has been embraced by the outdoor industry and community in a way that free soloing has not. In my view, this represents a moral breakdown.
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- James Wells
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15 years 6 months ago #193302
by James Wells
Replied by James Wells on topic Re: Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
Sure, they both have a lot of risk, but I think there's a good argument that steep skiing has a greater set of externalities that can't be controlled for.
If you free solo a rock route, while there is a chance of a key hold breaking or a rock falling on you, most of the success or failure resides in whether you climb or fall (per Stugie's comment). This would be especially true if the climber expressly chooses routes having a minimum of loose rock or breakage risk, which would seem wise.
On a steep ski route, the set of risks that are at best semi-controllable seems higher to me.
So, both have a high risk quotient but there may be a difference in how much risk is fully knowable and controllable vs not. This would suggest that, for someone who is fully and accurately cognizant of their capabilities, steep skiing is effectively more dangerous.
If you free solo a rock route, while there is a chance of a key hold breaking or a rock falling on you, most of the success or failure resides in whether you climb or fall (per Stugie's comment). This would be especially true if the climber expressly chooses routes having a minimum of loose rock or breakage risk, which would seem wise.
On a steep ski route, the set of risks that are at best semi-controllable seems higher to me.
So, both have a high risk quotient but there may be a difference in how much risk is fully knowable and controllable vs not. This would suggest that, for someone who is fully and accurately cognizant of their capabilities, steep skiing is effectively more dangerous.
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- telemack
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15 years 6 months ago #193307
by telemack
Replied by telemack on topic Re: Solo climber loses life in Yosemite N. P.
Per what Lowell has said, climbing media have also promoted free-soloing overly in the past. Just think of all the photos of John Bachar, Dean Potter, and of Henry Barber in the older days. And ski films make jumping in to big lines seem routine compared to the reality of preparation, experience, and backup crews with choppers. Remember all the in-bounds avy deaths in the last year or 2?
I have found over the years that if I keep my motives pure (e.g. Would you do this if nobody will ever know?) I wind it out less.
I have found over the years that if I keep my motives pure (e.g. Would you do this if nobody will ever know?) I wind it out less.
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