WMC Update 2012

The Stuart Range already lies wholly within the ALW, was that a mistake or do you enjoy sledding there? The areas in the proposal are in the Wenatchee Mountains. Saying you would be restricted to the parking lot is a bit disingenuous as there are many hundreds of miles of groomed and ungroomed forest road available for your enjoyment.

I was trying to imply that this area is already secured for non-motorized recreation and the small remaining alpine area(in comparison) is the only alpine area we have in that location.

Sure I expanded on being restricted to the parking lot, but that's where it's heading, just like off road dirt bikes. Why not restrict skiers to just the ski slopes, if we are restricted to the roads?

The BC alpine should be enjoyed by all and my position that there is already territory and terrain that meet WMC's proposals without taking away from another user group. If access to that terrain is an issue, let's address it, not just take what remains from the other users.

It would be interesting to compare the alpine terrain available to motor vs non-motor. Like Newtrout mentioned, there are few for sledding. And in that comparison, lets be sure to include the wilderness areas for skiing...

I was trying to imply that this area is already secured for non-motorized recreation and the small remaining alpine area(in comparison) is the only alpine area we have in that location.

Sure I expanded on being restricted to the parking lot, but that's where it's heading, just like off road dirt bikes. Why not restrict skiers to just the ski slopes, if we are restricted to the roads?

The BC alpine should be enjoyed by all and my position that there is already territory and terrain that meet WMC's proposals without taking away from another user group. If access to that terrain is an issue, let's address it, not just take what remains from the other users.

It would be interesting to compare the alpine terrain available to motor vs non-motor. Like Newtrout mentioned, there are few for sledding. And in that comparison, lets be sure to include the wilderness areas for skiing...

Off road dirt bikes are legal on multi-use trails on the OWNF with few exceptions, street legal trail bikes are legal on all roads and most trails outside wilderness.

This is my opinion, I don't think alpine terrain was ever intended to be used by snowmobiles when the current Forest Plan was written, snow mobiles have been able to travel in alpine terrain by default because of technological advances and it wasn't expressly prohibited. Again, in my opinion, when an area is accessed by machines it ceases to be back country.

Yeah, Blewett is probably the worst I've seen for parking. Most areas are a larger turn around and then parking along a road. With that configuration you don't have the ability to back down the road with other vehicles also driving in or out when it's time to leave. Yahoo's parking badly with their trailers is also a source of frustration for those of us that try to accomodate others in our efforts to park, believe me, it's not just "non-sledders" that have zero clue on parking. With regard to the ramp being left down, I know some do it for protection of the room and then other for convenience, which is fine in a parking area that has the room, like Stampede or others, but Blewett is not that place!

If there were the room, then a boat ramp parking situation wouldn't be a bad option, but usually that's not the case. Stampede is the only area that I know with ample room to park somewhat decent, I think it has 125 spots. Usually the snowparks are icey etc. so backing any real distance could create problems with some drivers. I've been to gold creek and had to park a mile up the road and it was difficult just drive forward let alone trying to back down that distance.

This really doesn't answer any of my question. At Blewett why can't users park closer together and at the end of the day drive out to the highway, turn around and drive back to the turnaround to load? You might have to wait your turn, but it would help ease the parking shortage. I think this is the way most non-motorized user view the parking at shared sno parks. The current custom just reinforces the opinion of non-motorized users that sledders are selfish and the only reason to park this way is for convenience. If maneuvering on icy and snow covered road os a problem, maybe users should have chains or better traction tires. These aren't personal attacks, they are observations based on personal experience and conversations with other non-motorized users.

Off road dirt bikes are legal on multi-use trails on the OWNF with few exceptions, street legal trail bikes are legal on all roads and most trails outside wilderness.

This is my opinion, I don't think alpine terrain was ever intended to be used by snowmobiles when the current Forest Plan was written, snow mobiles have been able to travel in alpine terrain by default because of technological advances and it wasn't expressly prohibited. Again, in my opinion, when an area is accessed by machines it ceases to be back country.

this is a bit of a repeat, but in my case with my young boys living in North Bend, I have to travel some distance to let them ride legally and atv/jeeping are even further.


I'm not certain of the dates, but alpine sled riding was addressed long ago, when they made the mt baker national areas. And I believe the ability of snowmobiles was addressed in the late 90's with the creation of "voluntary" non-motorized areas. I wasn't around this part of the country until 97 and didn't start sledding until 00. So some of the information is unknown to me and is part of my motivation to continue this conversation in why you want to exclude other users from this country. Education of my own mind with hopes that I can pass it on to others I know are newer to the area and work at changing attitudes of them vs us in this situation.

This really doesn't answer any of my question. At Blewett why can't users park closer together and at the end of the day drive out to the highway, turn around and drive back to the turnaround to load? You might have to wait your turn, but it would help ease the parking  shortage. I think this is the way most non-motorized user view the parking at shared sno parks. The current custom just reinforces the opinion of non-motorized users that sledders are selfish and the only reason to park this way is for convenience. If maneuvering on icy and snow covered road os a problem, maybe users should have chains or better traction tires. These aren't personal attacks, they are observations based on personal experience and conversations with other non-motorized users.

I don't disagree that users can park better, across the board! Coming up with a plan that provides turn around abilities would be a good thing and solve a lot of challenge with that parking area. It seems to me it's a small area with lots of users and it needs to be addressed. I usually avoid that access just because of the parking.

A few years ago, they made special parking areas for non-sledders at stampede, to put them closer and I thnk providing better palcement to fit more people, I'm sure something could be addressed. I think you really said what needs to happen, people need to not be selfish in their parking useage.

Funny, we keep coming back to the same solution...stop being selfish, except that one group continues to ignore the wilderness as part of the overall solution. Only to create adversaries in exclusion.

WMC is pleased to see this article today at the Wenatchee Outdoors website- www.justgetout.net/Wenatchee/18996