WMC Update 2012

I've been trying to find a breakdown of total SnoPark sales by user groups with no success.

It doesn't get recorded on the form. You can probably find data on how many nordic tabs were sold, but there's no way to know how many skiers just buy a sno-park pass. I buy one every year and I don't sled, but I never buy/need a nordic tab....

It doesn't get recorded on the form. You can probably find data on how many nordic tabs were sold, but there's no way to know how many skiers just buy a sno-park pass. I buy one every year and I don't sled, but I never buy/need a nordic tab....

You have to buy a different pass if you are going to snowmobile. I buy one every year too, but not the motorized one.

I appreciate the kind words; and I appreciate the restrained response to a sledder posting on your board.  I've seen the less than civil responses that skiers have received on snowmobile boards.

Fortunately it hasn't reached that level of conflict in our area.  Hopefully it never will.  I would even venture to say that the actual encounters between skiers and sledders in the backcountry are relatively rare (not including some of the more heavily used areas like Crystal Springs or the shared routes to Salmon La Sac non-motorized areas).  That's not meant to minimize the frustration of a hours of hard work only to find sled tracks in your line in the Wilderness.

I would love to see a mutual understanding between these user groups.  Unfortunately, the closure proposed by WMC would completely eliminate one of the prime sledding areas in the state.

The quote above is exactly what I'm afraid of.  Perhaps WMC realizes that such a proposal will elevate this conflict to a whole new level; effectively creating a major conflict where none currently exists.  I hope that is not the point of this whole exercise.

WMC is in its design avoiding inappropriate conflict with snowmobile advocates. WMC will pointedly ask please do not allude to potential future conflicts. Such may be veiled intimidation. Yes, WMC and the poster GUAVA first alluded to the topic, in the context of avoiding such conflict.

WMC has heard from more than one skier who does not want to support WMC/ TSP. stating their fear of inciting the snowmobile community. We find this to be distressing, citizens must be allowed to appropriately advocate for their USFS lands without fear or intimidation from others who choose to behave in an aggressive fashion.

We offer this model of advocacy so that gentle citizens may be encouraged to comment by email to the Forest Supervisor without fear or any attempts at intimidation to be directed at them.

"below is a link to my recent silver basin tour.
highlights:
I saw only 2 people and no snow mobiles on the ski in which was nice.
I appreciated the biler track in and out on the ollallie downhill.
When i got up into the basin i was bummed to see snow mobiler riders drinking beers beneath the good runs they had tracked out.
But they were cool guys and offered me a beer.
My ski line home was different but untracked.
  www.flickr.com/photos/11723786@N06/sets/72157623947447070/ "

I was there that day too.  These guys were personally OK although one could see that the activities that were pleasurable to them were inevitably the same ones that trashed the snow for us, never mind the noise and smell factors.  They did play it safe and were willing to radio each other to ensure that steeper steps with poor visibility were somewhat safe for skiers.  That is really appreciated.  I think the regulatory status of this area has been debated here before: I forget the conclusion.

I updated my map. I wonder if this would reduce some of newtrout's concerns about Esmeralda Basin.

(BTW - The map spells it "Esmeralda" instead of "Esmerelda" so I've been using that spelling.)

Thanks again! Agreed, we were not looking at Esmerelda for non-motorized status, we are more interested in the nonroaded areas next to the Wilderness Boundary downslope to the existing Roads. Great job!

Once the road melts out to within 1-2 miles of the TH the skiers start arriving.  Usually by then that first uphill part is melted out and probably no longer great for sledding.

You're exactly right.  This is a fortunate phenomenon that helps to limit skier/snowmobiler conflict in the area; and its the reason that I'm skeptical about the motivations for this entire project.  

How would you feel about this area being closed to motorized use after the North Fork Road was opened to wheeled vehicles?  That usually occurs after the road has melted out a mile or two above the snowpark.  By that time, the access from the Blewett side is pretty well finished, too.  To me, that seems like a solution that would meet the needs of both groups.  That, combined with better Wilderness enforcement and self-policing, could have a significant impact on the skiing experience in the area.  

Or, is the point of this exercise simply to control a different user group because we don't have the same values?  Again, I have yet to understand the impacts that snowmobiles have on Forest land, compared to other user groups.  I thought the heart of the issue was impacts to the skier experience?

WMC will pointedly ask please do not allude to potential future conflicts. Such may be veiled intimidation.

WMC has heard from more than one skier who does not want to support WMC/ TSP. stating their fear of inciting the snowmobile community. We find this to be distressing, citizens must be allowed to appropriately advocate for their USFS lands without fear or intimidation from others who choose to behave in an aggressive fashion.

That's quite a stretch to imply that I intended any sort of veiled intimidation.  I will attempt to avoid 'gamesmanship', and I would certainly appreciate you doing the same.  

The point of my comment was that 'WMC' seems to be interested in creating an imaginary level of conflict.  Conflict simply does not exist in this area to the degree that it is being implied (with the exception of Wilderness incursion, but apparently that isn't really the issue here).  The skiing community has much more to gain than the snowmobiling community by escalating this issue into the public eye.  We're all aware of the political tendencies of this state.  I'm glad to hear that is not your goal.....