PNW Ski Huts

I agree with the need to form a non-profit, but I don't think this is out of reach if it means enough to a group of folks.  I have done some SEPA work and as long as what you want to do is reasonable it has not been that bad.  It is not easy and takes experts in various fields, but it can be done.  I would be willing to pitch in to help make this happen.

I don't have a lot of expertise, and I'm not in a position to spearhead anything at this time, but I can assemble information and type, create documents, transcribe letters and reports etc. It's how I (try to) make a living, so I could do that if needed at some point to make this project fly . . .

This is great -- It will definitely take a team of people with various skills to make it work -- good to see some others that are interested.

My impression overall that the important factor in permitting is determining the impact on endangered species -- simple example -- The Lynx -- skier usage compacts snow and might allow bobcats to invade areas previously only accessible to Lynx (Lynx have larger paws and can travel in deeper snow than bobcats)   To permit a camp / hut in an area -- a determination has to be made that the camp/hut will not negatively impact Lynx (and many other species)

Other issues that the forest service considers is the need for the camp/hut to be properly cleaned up / removed at the end of the season.   A bond might be needed to ensure funds to pay for cleanup.

I would think that with any structure the biggest issue is always going to resolve around, how do you say it, poopy and it's storage and disposal.

I remember one hut on the Haute route that had a "terror throne"' where you basically did the business over a hole and your number2's dropped about 500 ft to the cliffs below. Not probably acceptable here.

Number 2 issues would have to be dealt with.

Based on my conversations with some of the rangers from the Cle Elum ranger district and from seeing the how the Wing Ridge huts (also permitted by the forest service)  I don't see this as a particularly difficult issue.    The Wing Ridge huts use a simple pit latrine covered by a tarp teepee.   I believe each summer they cover the old latrine and dig a new one nearby.   Since the maximum party size is twelve of the Wing Ridge hut follows wilderness rules (the camp in just outside the wilderness boundary) the total volume isn't that big.   Because of wilderness rules -- I don't see a hut above timberline (in a wilderness area) being very likely -- where one might have to adopt "Blue Bag" type practices like those required by Scottsman's favorite organization.

To permit a larger capacity hut and perhaps a permanent structure would be more involved -- for something of that capacity, composting toliet(s) would be needed.  The Scottish Lakes Backcountry Resort uses a couple of these for their 36 person capacity camp off of US-2.

My wife and I used to work for the Forest Service a long time ago and from my experience the first thing they will want to know is where do you want to permit? The issue of permitting a remote location is already well documented through the Forest Service preexisting contracts and lease agreements so it is not impossible. The trick is coming up with a viable location and finding a use friendly administrator with in the Forest Service.

I'm really excited to see all the interest in the hut idea. It does seem like we have a lot of open questions here around:

- Formalization of the Group (Non-Profit Status)
- Feasibility
- Costs
- Location
- Other Requirements (Sanitation, code etc)

So logically, what should we do to take this to the next step from a discussion board topic to something actionable?

Anyone want to discuss this in person the week after Turkey day? (1st Week in December)

I kind of like the wilderness aspect of the cascades but also agree that in certain areas a hut system would add a lot without taking much away.

I can volunteer structural engineering services if this idea ever goes that far and I know several civil engineers that I'm sure would be willing to offer some creative solutions to the poop and pipe issues. I'd also be interested in taking a fairly passive role in a nonprofit that got this going.

On a side note I've heard of several cabins that seemed to magically appear in the woods on forest service land. Of course, if the rangers find such a cabin they'll burn it down. I don't condone any illegal behavior but there's always more than one way to go about things.

Some kind of criteria for the hut and the experience it ought to deliver would be a good place to start. I think you'd want to describe the need and then think pretty broadly about who might benefit (XC skiers, climbers, maybe mountain bikers in the summer?).

Once there's some agreement on the kind of experience that's needed, then it will be much easier to spot viable locations. There are probably only a hand full  of places where you'd have the right terrain, the right access, the right legal status, and a location that's not too far from a user likely to show really strong support and use.

The European or Canadian systems seem to be an important point of reference. So are the Sierra Club huts in CA (e.g. Ostrander, Pear Lake, Peter Grubb). It would pay to think a bit about what we like and dislike about each of those systems.

This is a really good discussion. Thanks Mjoner for kicking it off and facilitating things.

What about far up smith brook road, to get to jove and beyond? The forest service operates hundreds of cabins remote in SE alaska (I was just there). I'm sure if you could find a suitable location that it wouldn't be too much paperwork to get it through permitting. The next decision would be how big of a shot ski to build...